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Tarptent Dipole Li Review


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Home Forums Campfire Editor’s Roundtable Tarptent Dipole Li Review

Viewing 25 posts - 26 through 50 (of 56 total)
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  • #3752738
    Johan
    BPL Member

    @johan-river

    Locale: Cascadia

    Is putting a tent stake into the ground really something that a lot of people struggle with? Seems like a strange flex to make a big deal out of being able to pitch with 4 or whatever number of stakes. As long as the core structure is easy to pitch with a basic number of stakes, then putting in additional stakes for stability isn’t much of an issue.

    Is the general public fearful of stakes in general? Honestly asking here.

    Something like one of the Zpacks mids looks very complicated to set up to someone who has never used something with so many guy lines, but the core of the structure goes up fast with only 3 stakes, and then the rest are easy or optional. My Altaplex is the fastest pitching tent I have ever used.

    —————————

    Overall, these look like neat shelters due to the massive amounts of living volume inside. I don’t think many people are going to care much about how few stakes it can be pitched with. The volume and weight are going to be the selling points, in my opinion.

    #3752742
    Todd T
    BPL Member

    @texasbb

    Locale: Pacific Northwest

    Is putting a tent stake into the ground really something that a lot of people struggle with?

    Have you never tried to shove a stake into rock or rocky ground?  When the ground is reluctant to take stakes, it’s vastly easier to find four usable nailing spots than 6 or 9 or 11…

    #3752749
    Johan
    BPL Member

    @johan-river

    Locale: Cascadia

    If that were the case, then one would have a free-standing tent, no?

    I had an Aeon Li and while it had a very minimal setup of stakes, they were very difficult to get into ideal positions on rocky ground due to how limited the guy lines are in how they can be pitched to get stake spots that let something go through into the ground. So, the number of guy lines being limited didn’t help and might have made it worse. Ended up having to stack rocks and dead-man the guy lines in several corners.

    I pitched in the same spot with my Altaplex and had an easier time getting something that worked due to how much variability is allowed in where I can place the stakes and even which stakes even get placed.

    I know threads like this can get very argumentative, so please, don;t take this as me trying to trash talk anything. I’m genuinely curious about the perception of guy lines to customers.

    Regardless of what I think though, for the guys who have to market these things to people, do you think the number of stakes is a large factor in their buying decision?

    #3752768
    Robert Spencer
    BPL Member

    @bspencer

    Locale: Sierras of CA and deserts of Utah

    Thank you Ryan, Andrew, Henry, Dan, and the community. I appreciate the thoughtful and in-depth analysis and discussion.  I have been educated and entertained even though much of the conversation is over my head.

    While, at least initially, there appears to be an advantage to the symmetry and design of the Dipole 2 in terms of spaciousness, ventilation, and stability, it comes at a weight penalty compared to the XMid Pro. Both my wife and I are small and thin so going with the XMid Pro to save 6-7 ounces is very appealing, and by doing so I would expect to give something up. This is a trade-off we make on all of our gear choices in an effort to stay light.

    Ryan has articulated some of the differences using wind speeds to quantify, but for me, either option will be strong enough for most of the conditions I encounter and either option will be a marked improvement to my aging Duplex which seems to be left in the dust.

    #3752769
    matthew k
    Moderator

    @matthewkphx

    If that were the case, then one would have a free-standing tent, no?

    Not me. I appreciate trekking pole supported shelters that use fewer stakes rather than more. I’m constantly running into rocks here in AZ or in the Sierras but I am not interested in carrying a freestanding tent.

    I always laugh when I see shelter setup videos where people are just leaning over and casually slipping a stake into the ground. I’ve never experienced that. I’m envious of it.

    #3752771
    R L
    BPL Member

    @slip-knot

    Locale: SF Bay Area, East Bay

    I read the review from Andrew and Ryan.  One item to be addressed is, “larger apex pole cap reinforcements”.  Do we know if it will still be trekking pole tip up or perhaps with the larger cup(s) I might be able to pitch with handle up.

    #3752773
    jscott
    BPL Member

    @book

    Locale: Northern California

    I think people like a hiking pole tent that goes up quickly with a small number of stakes, and then can be finessed from there. For me, one selling point of Durston’s solo tent is how simple and quick it is to stake out with four stakes and then have up and sturdily standing. If that or similar tents, like Henry’s,  then need to be guyed out further, so be it. No big deal.

    All that said, the Notch li is my aspirational tent. It ticks every box for me and then some. Four stakes and it’s up. It’s storm worthy and light.

    My old Zpacks hexamid solo with a net floor was a lot more finicky just to get standing up. And it required more stakes to do that as well. Not a deal breaker by any means!

    The Sierra are never short on rocks to use as guy points. I ended up finding a small pile of rocks to be sturdier than to stake into shallow, flimsy soil. Or both!

    #3752778
    Henry S
    BPL Member

    @07100

    >  Do we know if it will still be trekking pole tip up or perhaps with the larger cup(s) I might be able to pitch with handle up.

    Yes, it will support handle up.

    #3752780
    R L
    BPL Member

    @slip-knot

    Locale: SF Bay Area, East Bay

    Thank you

    #3752789
    Tuukka U
    BPL Member

    @spiderbro

    I’d really like to see a distinction between meteorological winds and actual wind loads on the tent when defining windspeeds for tents. Many people seem to go by forecasts or measurements from a nearby weather station with little regard to their surroundings and the velocity gradient. Even above treeline in fairly smooth terrain, a meteorological wind of 30mph is maybe half of that at a height of 4 feet and a quarter of that with some woods around – the problem being that these generalizations are very rough.

    Many people will say they can just estimate, and they might not be wrong. I used to be one of those people, having sailed quite a bit. That changed when I purchased a cheap anemometer from Aliexpress, even if they are pretty sensitive to being pointed directly at the wind and not completely accurate. I’m not too far off in clear areas, but considering individual variation etc. I feel like these guesstimates are as useful as weighing items by how heavy they feel. Sorry for the rant :)

    #3752790
    Jim Jessop
    BPL Member

    @stokeyjim

    The large end vents with the pull up covers look vulnerable to ingress from sideways-blown rain. This is very common in the UK where very variable wind direction is common too.
    How secure are those large end vents against sideways-blown rain ingress? Thanks!

    #3752795
    Bendrix B
    BPL Member

    @bendrix

    Im a committed Notch Li owner, having two so I can always have a snore-free tent to myself. For condensation Ill keep to the double wall design.

    Personally i find the stake debate off point. A few extra stakes of extra length add a level of security in bad weather well worth the ounce(s).

    As for rocky ground??  Rocky ground means rocks above ground that you can position over a stake lain on its side. I carry a few short loops of 3mm cord to extend my lines and protect the plastic from being under the rock. Rocky ground does not present a challenge to a taught pitch unless you insist it must be penetrated.

    While I appreciate a company owner’s pride in design, I respect a company owner who is very careful to be fair and accurate when criticizing a competitor’s product. One of you is a true gentleman. Thank you.

    #3752796
    Gunnar H
    BPL Member

    @qy

    “I’d really like to see a distinction between meteorological winds and actual wind loads on the tent when defining windspeeds for tents.”

    +1, I am a bit confused or puzzled about this. I guess based on previous articles that Ryan is relating to when he has measured wind speed so it corresponds to “tent level”, and if I remember right metrological forecast wind speeds are given for 10 m above the ground, at least where I live. About half the wind speed at tent level compared to 10 m level four places without much vegetation sounds familiar. If my assumption height over ground for winds speeds given by Ryan is correct, this would mean that the tents discussed are more storm worthy than it would seem if you relate the wind speeds given to meteorological data.

    #3752797
    Monte Masterson
    BPL Member

    @septimius

    Locale: Changes Often

    If you really value livability and tend to spend more time hanging out inside of a tent, I can see where the Dipole 1 or 2 might be a good choice. But if you instead prefer a smaller footprint with quick and easy setup then the Rainbow Li looks way better in my opinion, especially if you’re like me and only carry 1 trekking pole. And the Rainbow Li just weighs 2 oz more. True, it doesn’t have the options and space of the Dipole, yet the Rainbow Li still has far more headroom than a comparably sized mid.

    The Dipole is busy looking. I’m sure once you’re inside the space provided is probably unmatched, yet it does obviously take some work to get there. There’s a fiddle factor for sure. It’s kind of like a high-end German car, supremely designed and constructed, but also complex and maybe a tad overdone in the engineering department. Tarptent has some awesome shelters though.

     

     

     

     

    #3752808
    Steven R
    BPL Member

    @lifeisgoodsteve

    Ryan,

    How would you compare livability, storm-worthiness, etc. to the Double Rainbow Li, as they’re very similar in weight?

    Thanks for such objective, thorough reviews always!

    S

    #3752810
    Robert R
    BPL Member

    @itsabreezemcsafetygmail-com

    Great review and I’ll be interested in your impressions over time, particularly regarding the end vents. I’m 6’5 225 and lightweight durable tent options are few when you add high loft sleeping w insulated pad (colorado) …I move around and usually had to cover the toe box with a pack liner…I’m familiar w Henry’s work, own a notch li (very tight fit) and stratosphere li (…more room). For me they are quality tents used for fast light, or more comfort, with great venting…with one BIG nit would be the length of the side struts impact to a rolled up tent…enough so that I have seriously looked at Dan’s xmid pro 2 and yes, am on the waiting list …

    The new vents and the smaller packable sized struts could be a game changer…  Great problem for me to have,  another viable option to consider. BPL – I am very interested in long-term use (durability) and storm worthiness impressions…
    two great tent makers, and quality reviews… keep it up gentlemen!

    #3752811
    Charlie Brenneman
    BPL Member

    @cwbrennemangmail-com

    Yes, as someone who owns both the High Route and the X-Mid they are quite different so I don’t think it’s fair to characterize it like that. When I insert the trekking pole along the wall of the HR I need to have guyline in hand or else that side is falling. On my first pitch of the X-Mid last weekend the minute I inserted the trekking pole into the X-Mid, raised it up, and the entire structure was held upright, secure in place. A much different experience than pitching the HR.

    The High Route is really nice because it feels like a big room with its vertical walls. I think it is much more suited for a bivy/ground sheet set-up so you have the space to place gear and more easily sleep where you want in that rectangle shape. The inner doesn’t leave much of a usable vestibule IMO along the long narrow spaces between the walls. The X-Mid creates seriously massive vestibules in comparison.

    The poles on the HR certainly do not interfere with the living space in any configuration which is a plus. However, even though the trekking poles in the X-Mid are positioned more towards the center of the tarp the inner is well placed against them so that they also don’t really interfere with the living space, in a way that it “might” feel it would if using without the inner.

    I was able to use the X-Mid without Apex guylines, and used them on the night we expected 40 mph winds. The shelter held up just fine even without side wall guylines. I had used all my extra stakes to pin down the Flash 2 tent my friend was using, but I was also confident in the angled walls of the X-Mid and it felt plenty sturdy with those 6 guylines/stakes.

    I like both of my shelters and the Dipole would be a single wall shelter I would consider because of the size it offers for the weight – plus the other cool features like the visibility vents and the attention to fighting condensation and shorter/more packable struts – more so than because it can stand with just 4 stakes.

    #3752820
    Todd T
    BPL Member

    @texasbb

    Locale: Pacific Northwest

    Rocky ground means rocks above ground that you can position over a stake lain on its side. … Rocky ground does not present a challenge to a taught pitch unless you insist it must be penetrated.

    There’s some untruth in every generalization.  Not all rocky ground has big rocks.  Sometimes you’re shoving stakes basically into river rock-permeated soil and the largest stone lying around that could be used as an anchor might be the size of a softball.  Fewer required stakes *is* a good thing in many places.  Keep it up, tentmakers!

     

    #3752861
    Atif K
    BPL Member

    @atifethica-institute-2

    Ryan Jordan’s comment above gives one reason for pause: “Either one will serve you well in any condition appropriate for a trekking pole tent – which is *not* extreme winds or severe storms. Look elsewhere if you need shelter for those conditions!”

    My experience has been that 4 season weather hits any day of the year, in virtually any location. We’ve been caught out in severe rainstorms and desert storms, with nary a warning.

    What 4 season shelter strikes the balance between stormworthiness and light weight? The Stratospire and the Ultamid come to mind. Any others?

    #3752862
    jscott
    BPL Member

    @book

    Locale: Northern California

    “My experience has been that 4 season weather hits any day of the year, in virtually any location. We’ve been caught out in severe rainstorms and desert storms, with nary a warning.”

    wow, that’s not my experience at all. Sure, I’ve been caught in bad weather, but never ‘with nary a warning”. I know how to read the sky. I’ve never been hit with a full on winter snow storm in August. Come on.

    Ryan is simply stating what we all assume: we don’t need a full on winter tent in typical three season conditions in most of the 48 contiguous states.  Look at weather reports before setting out.

    don’t pack your fears, or spread them on the internet.

     

    #3752863
    Atif K
    BPL Member

    @atifethica-institute-2

    Wadi Rum, Jordan:

    ~8:00 pm: Skies clear, ~5 km/h wind, pitch tents, enjoy a relaxing dinner.

    ~2:00 am: Gale force winds (~70 km/h), friend’s pole breaks, I pitched shelter in a rock shelf.

    #3752872
    Todd T
    BPL Member

    @texasbb

    Locale: Pacific Northwest

    Wadi Rum, Jordan:

    ~8:00 pm: Skies clear, ~5 km/h wind, pitch tents, enjoy a relaxing dinner.

    ~2:00 am: Gale force winds (~70 km/h), friend’s pole breaks, I pitched shelter in a rock shelf.

    What was the forecast?

    #3752874
    Atif K
    BPL Member

    @atifethica-institute-2

    Some rain and wind was forecast, but certainly nothing out of the ordinary. Wadi Rum is located at the confluence of various systems: rift valley, sea, and hundreds of miles of open desert. Unpredictable year round. Desert squalls are not common, but they happen. Other land forms offer similar unpredictability: https://weather.com/science/weather-explainers/news/toughest-weather-forecast-places-us. Enough to warrant the extra pound of shelter adequacy, unless you don’t mind having more than one shelter, though I prefer gear usable in the broadest range of scenarios less subject to the vagaries of weather and the errors of forecasts. We learned the next morning that the Bedouin cameleer who came with us spent the night under a rug in a different shelf, so I guess it also depends on a person’s willingness to occasionally face the elements.

    #3752926
    Bendrix B
    BPL Member

    @bendrix

    “There’s some untruth in every generalization.  Not all rocky ground has big rocks.  Sometimes you’re shoving stakes basically into river rock-permeated soil and the largest stone lying around that could be used as an anchor might be the size of a softball.”

    Well…. If you are on a river, then there is driftwood?  Seriously, there is always something you can pile on the top of a stake or rope to tie it out.  If you are serious then how could any minimal number of stakes satisfy?  None of them can be put in the ground or held by dead weight.

     

    #3752965
    Todd T
    BPL Member

    @texasbb

    Locale: Pacific Northwest

    If you are on a river, then there is driftwood?

    What river?  River rock can be miles from the nearest river.

    Seriously, there is always something you can pile on the top of a stake or rope to tie it out.

    I’ll give you usually, but not always.  Regardless, why would I want to find and drag eight logs to my tent when I could get by with four with a better designed tent?

    I have an old tent you might be interested in…it requires eleven stakes for the most basic pitch. :-)

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