SWD Wolverine 90L

It’s a great solution for those who already have flat stays from an old SWD pack. But will it also work for those whose flat stays are from another pack? For example, if you’ve bent the stays in your old ULA pack to match the curvature of your back, will SWD be willing and able to bend the stays for its own packs to match your ULA stays?

When I asked, they were willing to be pretty accommodating. In the request I included a photo of my bent stays compared to their stock stays to illustrate what I was asking for; the offered to have me send the bent stays to use as the best solution, or to do their best to match the photo I had sent (I chose to send the stays). So my guess is they would try to match, but of course the results may not be as good.

Out of curiosity, does all this talk about the new stays being a negative negate all the other great features of the pack? Or is this just like with tents where every tent has a flaw ( to those people who don’t like the trade-off ) because of a trade off the designer made. To me, it seems like a trade off they made so that the user can carry heavier loads.

I think this is exactly right, it’s just a trade off. The big wild is my winter load hauler, replacing my divide that I used for many years. The divide was and is a great pack, but never really fit amazing because of the curvature in my spine. When SWD switched to tubular stays, that gave me the opportunity to get a pack with equivalent load capacity, but with the frame custom bent for me by people who know what they’re doing, as opposed to me buying a pipe bender and most likely just ruining my very expensive bag. The end result was a considerably lighter (something like 10oz) and more comfortable winter pack.

For stays, it depends if you need a specific bend or not. I prefer tubular stays. Bendable stays tend to bend.

I purchased a set of tubular stays from Dan Ransom (Sockdolager). The stays were intended for a different pack. He was able to bend the tubular stays to match my existing stays by sending photos to him. The stays happened to be the same length as the stays used in my SWD Wolverine. I have been using the tubular stays in the Wolverine ever since.

The flat bar stock that SWD used shouldn’t bend with any reasonable load (under 65lbs).

Relying on a maker’s generic bend on a fixed stay moves the pack away from a custom tuneable pack to an essentially fixed suspension pack (like an external frame). For me a fixed frame negates the raison d’etre of the pack. Fixed suspension packs are a dime a dozen. Very few people’s backs will fall comfortably within the pack makers generic bend on a suspension like the SWD. It really requires the trampoline type suspensions to fit a wider variety of backs.

Yes, it is true, the average backpacker has zero idea how to get stays shaped to their own back. It takes the pack maker to educate the user.

There is nothing that carries like an intelligently designed, properly tuned/shaped internal frame suspension.

The good news, both my packs on order have been changed to flat stock aluminum stays.

I’m very grateful to @JohnB for bringing the change at SWD to my attention – and just in time, as my pack order just went into production.

I’ll stop short of calling them a dime a dozen.

It’s my limited (youtube) understanding that they were using the same size stays as HMG, which I found a bit disappointing. I replaced my HMG stays with a pair of genetic tubular bends from Sockdolager and was much happier. We’re all a little different. There are a lot of pack manufacturers. Maybe too many. Semi custom is where SWD stands out. We each get what we want.

[Joey G] Out of curiosity, does all this talk about the new stays being a negative negate all the other great features of the pack?

@JoeyG My view is that nothing is more important than a pack’s comfort—and with that in mind, it is possible that the inability to bend stays outweighs a lot of great features, at least for me. For what it’s worth, when I last chose a pack, I had two “finalists” in mind. I chose the one that was worse in most respects because it was more comfortable.

[Noah K] When I asked, they [SWD] were willing to be pretty accommodating. In the request I included a photo of my bent stays compared to their stock stays to illustrate what I was asking for; the offered to have me send the bent stays to use as the best solution, or to do their best to match the photo I had sent (I chose to send the stays).

@NoahK, that is good news—thank you.

@bradmacmt, I’m glad that things worked out with SWD, and glad that they’re still able to provide flat stays. By the way, I’m curious about the material that SWD uses for those flat stays. Do you know whether they’re made of 6061 alloy, 7075 alloy, or something else?

John B, I agree.  I should have been more specific and said “Would new stays negate all the other features that attribute to increased comfort?”

I’m guessing your answer is yes.

IMO I would say no other pack at this weight has a better;

1. shoulder strap
2. hip belt
3. hip belt buckle. I’m probably the only one that cares about this :)

It’s my limited (youtube) understanding that they were using the same size stays as HMG

Depends on what aluminum stock the two co’s are using and how well they are fitted to one’s back… it’s fine to guess (youtube), and we all do it, but it’s not the same as knowing.

I’m curious about the material that SWD uses for those flat stays. Do you know whether they’re made of 6061 alloy, 7075 alloy, or something else?

@JohnB I don’t know, but I’ll find out.

John B, I agree.  I should have been more specific and said “Would new stays negate all the other features that attribute to increased comfort?”

I’m guessing your answer is yes.

IMO I would say no other pack at this weight has a better;

1. shoulder strap
2. hip belt
3. hip belt buckle. I’m probably the only one that cares about this

Joey, I agree with your points, but would add customizable stays put the SWD at the very pinnacle (for me) of lightweight, comfortable backpacks. Nothing in this weight category is as good, but for me, only with tunable flat stays.

I keep a record of all my internal frame stays in their evolution from factory original to final fitting.

Below is the documentation of the stays of my current Wolverine 70L from factory shape (right) to final shape (left). The middle was a starting point in the process and was bent to match my ULA Catalyst stay shape.

As you can clearly see, the factory shape in no way is going to work with my back as comfortably as the stays final tuning.

Prior to this I had a Wendigo 70L (renamed Wolverine – same pack) but didn’t like the elastic side pockets, so went with a cinch closure.

hip belt buckle. I’m probably the only one that cares about this :)

@JoeyG, you’re not! What do you like about the SWD buckle, and how does it differ from the buckles on other packs that you’ve used?

@bradmacmt, that is a great illustration of the stays—thank you for posting it.

The flat bar stays SWD was using were 7075. I’m fairly certain my 8 year old HMG uses 6061. They are quite soft – day and night difference between 7075 and 6061. Not sure if HMG has changed alloys since then.

How easy is the 7075 to adjust?

In the 1/2” wide by 1/8” thick that SWD was using, it’s quite easy. Once shaped, it tends to hold its shape better than 6061. When bent, 7075 tends to spring back to shape where as 6061 tends to stay bent. To shape 7075, you have to bend it quite a bit past the intended curvature to get a permanent bend. If that makes sense…

You can buy 7075 stays from onlinemetals.com. The trick is to look for the 1/8” thick sheet and get it custom cut to 1/2” wide by the desired length. It comes a bit rough due to the cutting so requires some filing/sanding to smooth the edges. Nunatak and Virga Packing used also sell these stays but don’t seem to any more. Pretty sure they were getting them from onlinemetals as well.

@John B, the belt buckle is very rugged. Confidence inspiring. I’ve worn other light weight backpacks that were too small and would dig into your belly. You can really get the hip belt tight around your hips with this backpack. It’s so easy to make sure the weight is on your hips when you want it to be because of this and the very wide hip belt.

@ChrisL, that is good to know about the stays—thank you.

@JoeyG, that is good news. To me, the hip belt of the SWD pack is one of its greatest points of appeal. I say this as someone who has never owned one.

As long as we’re at it, I have a question about SWD side pockets. Dan Durston has some thoughtful comments here and here about factors that make water bottles more or less accessible in side pockets. He emphasizes the importance of a two-panel design that gives the side pocket a flat bottom, which in turn permits a water bottle to rest flat on the inside bottom of the pocket. Many packs instead use a one-panel design for side pockets. In these packs, the bottom of the side pocket is pleated or folded. It’s therefore narrow, and water bottles can’t sink all the way into it. The effect is to make water bottles harder to reach.

Do the SWD side pockets have a one- or a two-panel design? And how easy do you find it to remove bottles from the side pockets, and to re-insert them in the side pockets, while wearing your SWD pack?

My HMG is at least 8 years old, so that’s all good to know. I see Brad’s point. I didn’t like the softer stays. I’ve sent SWD an email to see if the stays are interchangable. They usually reply fairly quick.  I can always get tubular from Sockdolager.

@John B, This pack is the first one that I’ve ever owned that I was able to take out the water bottle from the side pockets and put it back without taking off the pack. If you look at the angle they have the closing part of the pocket, it makes it really easy to place the bottle back in the pocket.

From SWD:

We’re using tubular stays on all of our pack models currently. We do have to sew the stay tubes slightly different on the tubular models, so the stays are not interchangeable.

The tubular stays offer improved load transfer to the hip belt compared to the flat bar stays, especially with loads over 40lbs. The tubular stays shaved about 2oz off of the weight of the flat bars as well which is a nice bonus.

Tubes it is.

All this talk about custom bending stays for a better fit has me wondering:  how/where does one go to properly bend pack stays to more accurately fit the curvature of one’s spine/anatomy?  ULA has a couple videos on Youtube for their Circuit/Catalyst packs.  Do people just make the bends in the stay deeper or shallower and then see how that fits through trial and error?

@Jeff, that’s what I did for my ULA Circuit. The ULA video was a big help (and they should publicize it more). The process wasn’t hard. The big qualification is that ULA uses the 6061 alloy for its stays, which makes them easy to bend. (It also makes them more prone to being deformed in ways that you don’t want, though this hasn’t happened to me.)

@Terran, @JoeyG: thank you for the updates.

Got a reply from SWD this morning – indeed, they use 7075. Makes sense, they are stout stays.