superfeet in my boots?

[Sebastian O]

Hello friends,

Based on my recent weekend trip where I tested a bunch of gear, I wondered if its common or not to add super feet soles to your shoes/boots?

If yes, add on top of the boots insoles? vs remove boots original insole? (mine are removable). Just curious what some of you do if anything regarding Super Feet. The reason I ask is because my feet got tired BUT, im a newbie backpacker so my feet are not used to 12-15 mile per day hikes with a backpack.

I have these: http://www.amazon.com/Vasque-Mens-Inhaler-Hiking-Boot/dp/B00KYLHVWK

Thank you.

[Kevin Babione]

I put the green Superfeet in my Montrail Hardrocks (my previous boots) after removing the stock insole. They worked well – especially in the rocky mountains of PA – and my feet definitely felt better with them than they did with the stock insole.

I moved on to a pair of New Balance low hikers and have never needed to replace the insoles even after a couple of hundred miles on the boots.

In summary it’s probably worth swapping out your insoles for the Superfeet and giving it a try.

[Ian]

What is motivating you to try the Superfeet?  Were your feet uncomfortable in the boots or are you just interested in trying them out?

I always remove the stock insoles when replacing them.  I’m unaware of when you’d want to add insoles over old ones so I’ll let someone else weigh in on that.

I’ve used a few pairs of the Superfeet green insoles over the years and like them.  When it comes to shoes, socks or insoles, I’ve found that this is definitely in the realm of YMMV so what works for me, may not work for you.  I’d hold on to the old insoles until you’ve confirmed that the superfeet are a good fit for you.

I’d take the time to ensure that the arch support on the insoles line up with your feet.  For me, that required going up a size larger and then trimming them back so they would fit in my shoe. Had I gone with the one that was advertised for my shoe size, the arch support would have been too far back and would’ve likely caused discomfort.

[Matt Dirksen]

1. It’s normal for your feet to feel tired.
2. Personally, I used green Superfeet for about 15 years, then switched to Spenco about 18 months ago. While I did a lot more hiking back then, I definitely felt they helped w/ fatigue & ankle stabilization, esp. recovering from volleyball injuries many moons ago.
3. Definitely switch the existing insole out with the new insole.
4. (Fwiw, Superfeet were great, but I needed metatarsal support. My podiatrist recommended the Spenco Total Support). I’m pretty happy w/ them as well.
5. As Ian said, make sure the arch support properly aligns.

[Lester Moore]

It depends on your shoes, feet, how “broken in” your feet are to hiking, and how accustomed you are to a particular pair of shoes. I use blue Superfeet in my mountaineering boots, a foam running shoe insert in my light hiking boots, and Dr. Scholl’s Gel Sport insoles in my trail runners – all without the stock insert. Stock inserts provide minimalist arch support and little cushion – which may or may not be OK for your needs.

As stated by others, tired sore feet are to be expected if you’re pushing yourself beyond what you normally do, either in terms of being new to hiking, hiking more miles or more vertical than you’re accustomed to, or hiking back to back days in a row. Ideally, you’re feet will get used to it and feel better after training more, or after several days on the trail.

If you have persistent boot challenges and want the best possible fit, consider seeing a outdoor boot fitting specialist, if there’s one in your area. There was a good one in the Denver/Boulder CO area that worked through Neptune Mountaineering and provided excellent results – that was 6 years ago though.

[Jennifer Mitol]

First of all Sebastian, there is no need to put insoles in your boots.  Frankly, I know some people really like to swap out the stock insoles of their shoes for SuperFeet (or some other brand), but I never really understood why.  I’m a big believer in NOT using orthotics unless you REALLY, REALLY need them.  And most people don’t.  So unless there is some massive biomechanical error that you absolutely know you need to fix, don’t bother.  You are trying to fix something that ain’t broke.

And specifically to you – those are some big monstrous GoreTex boots you will be wearing in the steamy hot SE of this country…any reason why?  Your feet are going to be WAY more uncomfortable in those “waterproof” boots than anything a superfeet insole can fix.  You will be far wetter from your own sweat in there than you’d be if you literally waded across a chest deep river.

My advice, both as a hiker and as a physical therapist – before you get married to some boots – go get yourself a nice pair of breathable trail runners that feel good right away in the store (or in your home if you’ve ordered online).  Get fitted at a running store for trail runners…and make sure you walk out of the store with shoes that feel good on your feet right away.  You should never have to break in shoes…ever.  Back when people wore those huge heavy leather boots then yes, you needed to let the leather work out a bit.  But today’s shoes?  I can’t imagine any reason why anyone would wear big heavy boots anymore.

And absolutely no need for goretex unless MAYBE you are doing a lot of hiking in wet slushy snow in 32 degree temps.  And even then we could have a nice discussion about that…..

 

 

 

[Jennifer Mitol]

Some other folks chimed in while I was writing my response…and my question to them is the same: why?  the insole is NOT where you get any arch support.  The arch is NOT a weight bearing surface and it should not be.  If you need any real motion control it should come from your heel or your forefoot – not anything built up in the arch.

The insole really serves no purpose other than to provide a comfortable interface with the shoe.  The shoe is what you want – and if the shoe doesn’t feel comfortable then you need a different shoe.

I know podiatrists LOVE their inserts and give literally everyone orthotics.  But why??  your feet are supposed to move and have muscles and react to the ground under them…if you start filling up that space under your foot with gel or foam or something, then you lose your foot’s ability to conform to the ground underneath.

I’m not advocating minimalist shoes…for some folks that’s a great way to go, but not for others.  Some people have super floppy feet that need a lot of external help to hold you up.  But other than that I think we’ve long ago stopped using our feet as the shock absorbers they are and tried to rely on the shoes and whatnot to do all that work for us.  There is literally no change in running injuries since we started creating $150 running (and hiking) shoes….people had the same injury rates when they ran in Chuck Taylors.

 

[Gary Dunckel]

While this is only somewhat related, I thought I’d offer it anyway. When I bought my first pair of Merrell Moab Ventilators a year ago, I was disappointed in the stock insoles. They were very thin, and I could feel every single pebble. So I checked out every pair of stock insoles in all my hiking and running shoes. Every one was different–some offered pretty good comfort and some were pretty bad. The weights and thicknesses were all over the map. I finally went with the stock Moab liners, and I placed a pair of Salomon Ortholite liners on top of those.This saved me the weight of Superfeet. Keep in mind that I only needed better cushion, not arch support.

I learned that I should swap out any good liners with cheesy ones whenever I give shoes to Goodwill.

[Ian]

I know podiatrists LOVE their inserts and give literally everyone orthotics.  But why??

I had a pretty bad case of plantar fasciitis.  I tried to tough it out but finally saw my GP and later a podiatrist when I couldn’t put any weight on my foot at all and quite literally had to either hop or use a crutch to make it to the bathroom in the morning.  Throughout the day, I couldn’t walk anywhere without a noticeable limp.  First x ray ordered by my GP showed that I have some medieval looking heal spurs.  He warned me that I was likely going to need surgery but referred me to a podiatrist for a follow up.

Podiatrist asked me a few questions, looked at my x rays, confirmed that I do indeed have heel spurs, but correctly diagnosed the source of my misery being plantar fasciitis and that he doubted surgery would be necessary.

He recommended Spenco Cross Trainer Insoles.  I drove directly to Fred Meyer, bought a pair, and put them in my shoes.  A week later, my pain was 80% less.  Two weeks later, I was symptom free.

To shorten the story, I later switched to Green Superfeet, and now just wear La Sportiva Wildcats with their stock insoles and haven’t had another flare up with my plantar fasciitis in four or five years.

Yes, none of this has anything to do with the OP’s situation but for me, a $20 pair of insoles and no other medication or treatment saved my feet.

[Stephen M]

I never change out insoles on trail runners but do I with my ski and cold weather boots, I really like the Sole brand.

[Clue M]

The superfeet support is much closer to the heel than the arch,  it provides a great interface to the shoe.    They are not cushion insoles,  nobody buys them for cushion.   I think it is the heel cup that makes them work so well.   Low friction surface material, and excellent durability.       I remove stock insoles and replace them.  You don’t want to stack superfeet ontop of the stock insole, you want it to lock in place against the last.

[Roger Caffin]

Read what Jennifer wrote very carefully.
In my experience, experienced walkers whose foot muscles have toughened up do not bother with fancy after-market insoles.

Cheers

 

[Lester Moore]

Obviously this is an important topic, given how critical our feet our to backpacking, and the best insole likely depends on the individual to a large extent. For me, I have very narrow heels and the inserts are more to take up room in the heel box than anything else. Without inserts, my mountaineering books just don’t fit well and have too much heel slippage.

With the light hikers and trail runners, the choice of insert was more from trial and error for comfort as heel slippage was less of a problem. Packing the stock insoles along with a few other options on hikes and switching mid-hike, I like the feel of the gel inserts on the foot bed in the trail runners. Nothing scientific, but the feet seem to feel better and fatigue less with the rubbery insoles.

[Matt Dirksen]

“The arch is NOT a weight bearing surface and it should not be.”

Agreed, yet my general understanding has been that the third party insoles “claim” to offer superior “heel stabilization”, which in turn, can contribute to improved ankle support. If the arch support isn’t aligned, then the heel isn’t either-right? I admit this is probably their sales Kool-aid lingo, but is there any data to support any of their claims?

Jennifer, I know you are being rhetorical (and I truly value and respect your opinion on this matter), but don’t you think that there is room for improvement when it comes to “stock insoles” that come with shoes? Is there a chance that those insoles might do more long-term harm than good, in certain situations?

(I know that when I used to fit packs at REI, it was important to let people know that… while the pack might feel “ok” in the store, even with weight, they really weren’t going to know how it felt until they got on the trail. Often, it took a lot of trail miles until someone truly knew if a pack was/or wasn’t going to work for them. But only after that, did they start learning “how” to know what was comfortable for them. I just as well assumed it was the same with footwear – and insoles.)

While my podiatrist did offer a Spenco prescription for my particular situation, I still remember my feet feeling A LOT better years ago when I switched out my stock insoles for SuperFeet. Of course, this was in the days of 50 oz boots and 45lb packs.

In between dirt trails, I assume most of us are typically walking on concrete/tile/wood/gravel/ and asphalt these days, which likely doesn’t resonate with our foot’s natural evolution. Wouldn’t that affect what is best for our feet as well?

:)

[Ian]

Read what Jennifer wrote very carefully.
In my experience, experienced walkers whose foot muscles have toughened up do not bother with fancy after-market insoles.

Ok

I know podiatrists LOVE their inserts and give literally everyone orthotics.  But why??  your feet are supposed to move and have muscles and react to the ground under them…if you start filling up that space under your foot with gel or foam or something, then you lose your foot’s ability to conform to the ground underneath.

I don’t read anything here that should discourage anyone from trying Superfeet.  As Cam… Clue mentioned, they certainly aren’t filling any voids under your feet with foam.  Certainly don’t buy them for arch support.  There’s some contour to them but the arch portion doesn’t prohibit natural flexion of the foot (discussed ad nauseam with REI’s sale’s pitch but also my experience).

They’re more durable than any shoe I’ve put them in.  There’s plenty of life left in them when it’s time for me to retire my shoes.  I typically will wear a hole into my insole with my big toe.  I don’t do that with green superfeet so no weird spots in on the insole that may cause friction when you are cranking out the miles.

Buy them.  Don’t buy them.  I couldn’t care less.  As previously mentioned, I’ve found the insole in my Wildcats to be perfectly fine so I don’t bother any more.  There are other shoes/boots that I wear where I still do.

So to our resident curmudgeon, I say… GO ALL BLACKS and DRINK NUUN!!!

(smiley face emoticon)

 

[Matt Dirksen]

“In my experience, experienced walkers whose foot muscles have toughened up do not bother with fancy after-market insoles.”

 

[Clue M]

I think talk of toughening up is fantasy.   Everyone has a phone.   Nobody has stats.

https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/pedometer-stats/#post-3399296

[[ Drew ]]

As someone who has spend literally hundreds of dollars on footcare products – superfeet, powerstep inserts, foot rollers, calf stretchers, support shoes, hush puppies, gel inserts, heel cups, not to mention TWO sets of custom orthotics from two different podiatrists – I have to agree with what Jennifer said.  Orthotics and inserts are tantamount to crutches: you don’t need them unless you have an acute condition that is being treated, and then you should discard them after.

That being said, I do believe there is value in shoe inserts when hiking.  Wearing superfeet (or similar) definitely helped by feet.  However, the ideal thing would be to have strong, limber feet and supporting leg muscles before hiking – something I am working on.  If that’s not the case, and you have a trip coming up, perhaps orthotics are a good choice.  The foot’s arches (lateral and longitudinal) were never designed to be supported, though.  In fact, an “arch support” is a bit of a paradoxical device since the purpose of an arch is to bear weight

[Jennifer Mitol]

yes – using the inserts to take up space in a shoe is a good idea.  Using them thinking you are getting some sort of “support” is not – because, well, they don’t.

I guess what frustrates me more than anything is our continued attempt to alter how our feet move in order to chase painfree feet and legs.  As a PT I focus so much on how the bones and ligaments move, how the muscles support those joints and how all of that interacts with the ground (which, of course, is way more complicated when walking on uneven surfaces – like a trail) that it really frustrates me to see all these products designed to “brace” our feet.  We know not to wear back braces all day long because of the havoc it wreaks on your core muscles…the feet are the same way.  Our bodies are inherently lazy – if you don’t need to use something you won’t.  If you wear a back brace all day long, your core can shut off because something else is doing the work.  If you wear orthotics or other such foot support all the time – well then your foot muscles don’t have to do anything and they can shut off, too – something else is holding you up.

Again, there certainly are times when extra control and “support” are warranted: letting an injury heal, someone who has such lax ligaments in their foot/ankle that strengthening is pointless….things like that.  For the vast majority of the rest of us, I just don’t see the point except to spend money and maybe work a little “placebo” magic.

For those of you who just normally swap out your insoles for SuperFeet…if the shoe is uncomfortable the way it is, why don’t you just buy a different shoe and save yourself some cash?

If you are constantly allowing some external device to control the motion of your foot, you are not letting your foot do what it’s designed to do: absorb force by letting the arch collapse (but if you have something either jammed under the arch itself, or under the inside of the heel to control the rear foot so the arch can’t drop) and to spring back up again when you unweight; to allow the forefoot to rotate at the transverse tarsal joints to allow the 1st and the 5th met heads to stay in contact with the ground regardless of the position of the rear foot…why would you want to prevent all of this from happening?

As I said, yes, when you are healing from an injury of some sort then it might be a good idea to use devices to control that motion to allow for healing to take place…but for each and every other step you take, why are you trying to restrict what your foot is designed to do?

 

 

[Lester Moore]

Good points on letting the arch do its job. What about inserts for cushioning purposes, aside from support and volume filling? While the Superfeet are fairly hard, the gel insoles do provide noticeably more comfort and cushioning than stock insoles, with less jarring on the back and knees.

Jennifer – wasn’t there a detailed post from you a few months back on exercises to train for hiking, including diagrams – not sure if it was for feet or knees or something else, but can’t seem to find it now.

[Justin Baker]

“I’m a big believer in NOT using orthotics unless you REALLY, REALLY need them.  And most people don’t.”

I work at a store that sells hiking/multi-sport footwear. About 75% of women that come in have orthotics. That is not an exaggeration. And plenty of women with disfigured toes from wearing pointed shoes. For men I see less than 50% with orthotics. Very depressing.

[Sebastian O]

Im not sure about Jennifers view because in that case, our feet were not meant to wear shoes, period.

[Jennifer Mitol]

Not really Sebastian – shoes protect our feet from sharp things…nothing wrong with that.  And again, I’m not at all even advocating for a minimalist approach.  just that if you look back at runners before we started making all these orthotics and fancy running shoes – and you look at runners today – there is literally no difference in rate and type of injury.  All that we’ve done to work on making fancy and “supportive” footwear has pretty much done nothing to change injury rates.  So what’s the point?

I just see far too many people really trying to brace their feet as much as they can – instead of realizing that the arch is SUPPOSED to collapse with weight bearing – that’s its point! – and that your foot is supposed to rotate all over the place to conform to the ground beneath us.  If you don’t let your foot and ankle do that, guess what?  now your knee is going to do it, or your back, or your hip…something has to absorb those ground reaction forces and if you don’t let your supposed-to-be-mobile foot do that…..

Yes, I can see putting gel inserts for cushion making things more comfortable (or as I said before, to take up volume in the shoe) – but using orthotics and inserts to control how your foot rotates and rocks is not a good idea, yet SO many people do it.

patient: I’ve had these orthotics for years…

me: why do you have orthotics?

patient: I don’t know, I’ve just always worn them…..

 

[Sebastian O]

“If you don’t let your foot and ankle do that, guess what?  now your knee is going to do it, or your back, or your hip…something has to absorb those ground reaction forces and if you don’t let your supposed-to-be-mobile foot do that…..”

Very interesting, good to know. So Superfeet doesnt do any good based on what you mention above? You dont reco any external orthotics?

Regarding my Vasques, they are extremely light and breathe very very well despite the Goretex. They are basically a hiking shoe with a mid. Perhaps not as light and breathable like trail runners but Im not ready for trail runners. Im still learning how to hike. But my feet were exhausted end of day but the rest of me was not. This of course is probably because Im new at hiking 12-15 miles in one day but, im in very good shape and my pack is still on the heavy side. Im pretty convinced given a different better in sole, my feet would have not been been as tired.  I cant afford to buy and try a bunch of boots/shoes. Will have to stick to these.

[Richie S]

One thing I would say is that superfeet are as much about heel alignment as support. So putting them in on top of existing insoles may well throw that off. You can get thicker superfeet if you need more volume. I’ve used Superfeet for about 15 years now in virtually all my shoes and nagging lower back pain went away at night, but each to their own on these things and they may not work for you.

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