Sun Protection, what is your solution?

I am just clarifying  the “that cotton is practically worthless for sun protection” misnomer.

The chart one of you fine gentlemen linked shows 81% of cotton shirts to be 25 SPF or better, 60% are 50 SPF or better.

Whoever wrote the inaccurate information of “cotton is practically worthless for sun protection” may want to edit their post and state a bit state more clearly “thin cotton…” Or course, any thin fabric is going to be less effective, too.

“The most important single protective factor of fabrics is <b>cover factor </b>or <b>weave density </b>– i.e., how much of the fabric is actually fiber and how much is open space, through which UVR can pass.”

Good chance a typical cotton button “casual dress”  shirt is in the SPF 25-35 range if not better; likewise for a polycotton shirt.  (A little thicker than a more formal dress shirt I find).

In the end: Cover up with some clothing that allows sun protection but does not constrict breathability. A rain coat appears to be the best sun protection. I would not want to hike in it. :)

Cheers…

I’ve seen people in the high Sierra wearing a shemagh a few times now and always thought it would work well as sun protection.

Hmm…looks a bit like something a desert dwelling nomadic person wore in the past. ;)

“Not sure it’d be a good solution for a next to the skin layer for running at least, as from what i remember of linen it’s a bit abrasive (runners nipple springs to mind :o ) worth looking into for a outer layer though.”

Might not be–i wasn’t thinking of running (i should have) when i wrote that–more hiking.  My experience is that there is a wide range of feel of linen.  The high quality OR well used stuff is often quite soft. The cheap stuff brand new, is a bit abrasive.  I could see the latter especially being a problem for nipples while running.  You could bond silk, UL nylon, or the like to those areas though.

“What’s the outcome likely to be if it picks a fight with a bush or thorns, is it tougher these days than what i remember?”

That depends on the quality and weave.  Linen has 2 to 3 times the tensile strength of cotton. It’s considered a fairly tough and durable material for natural materials.  If it’s mixed with polyester, it’s even tougher.

Another option, and softer and tougher, are nylon-tencel blends (like the shirt i mentioned earlier).  I really like these as well.

“have you looked at Tencel ? It claims to be as cool as linen and as strong as polyester.”

Yes, i have, but i haven’t ever tried a pure tencel garment.  Everything i have is blended with something else, so it’s hard to do a straight comparison. I suspect that linen tends to feel drier a bit faster than tencel, because linen fibers are quite hollow, suck in moisture and also there isn’t a lot of solid material.

I do really like nylon-tencel blends.  Softer, lighter, and more durable than linen.  My main shirt for the Colorado Trail trip coming up in early July will be a nylon-tencel blend.

“Also, the upcoming Polartec Delta might be a possibility.”

The magic of marketing language and presentation?  I just looked into it–sounds like it’s mostly just a blend of wicking, but hydrophobic polyester fibers, with an absorbent, hydrophillic fiber like tencel or cotton.

If the poly fibers are highly wicking design, then it will be slightly more cooling than say most other blends of hydrophobic and hydrophillic fibers, but probably not by much.

In any case, when it comes to hot weather, and when it comes to blends of hydrophobic and hydrophillic fibers, i prefer nylon blends over polyester.  A bit tougher, a bit lighter, and noticeably less stinky.   It may be a bit cooler too, since nylon has higher thermal conductivity, and micro fiber versions pass IR very well.

It’s just that unfortunately, it’s more rare for nylon fibers to be altered in shape as to be permanently wicking, than polyester nowadays.  I have a couple of nylon, knit shirts that are cool feeling while dry, but don’t wick for crap.

this is from the same study that Paul referenced:

“In general, clothing often worn outdoors in high-UVR regions should have a UPF of 50+. This would include, for example, school uniforms and schoolwear, workshirts, high- visibility shirts and vests, swimwear and rash vests (aka rashguards, which usually should exceed UPF 50+ by a considerable margin because their UPF decreases when wet), fishing clothes and associated gear, and police uniform”.

Of course altitude exacerbates sun exposure by quite a bit.

I suppose you could hike in denim. I wonder how many people here do that.

Thanks for quoting the study so adroitly:

fishing clothes and associated gear

No denim needed. Fishing clothes which are  non-denim clothing are comfortable, don’t weigh much and can be made of the dreaded cotton in part. Dunno for sure but fishing clothes sounds like “recreational clothes” in general and sure looks like it.

EDIT or 100% Cotton! Egads! :D

On a similar note:

or example, school uniforms and schoolwear, workshirts,

aka Dickies or Wrangler shirts . :)

Again, just use some common sense.

Is it a thin weave of cloth? Don’t count on much sun protection.

An average thickness like the fishing shirt above? You’ll be rather fine per the article Jeffrey quoted above.

To sum up: Wide hat, long sleeves and pants. Collared shirt suggested. Make sure the clothing is not so thin a weave that  you get some “color”. Weave of material is more important than type of material. Wear what is comfortable while still achieving the overall goal of sun protection.

I have been using an OR Echo ls zip along with a $1 white foam visor from Hobby Lobby and a thick light colored cotton bandana that also doubles as my towel/sling/etc.  Cost $35.

Does anyone know the SPF on any 150 gram merino wool (or something of a similar weight since I often also wear 125 gram nuyarn ) shirts?  I’m just curious about this because this is what I personally find most comfortable in summer high altitude conditions for temperature regulations, stink, and bugs (soaked in permethrin) and hopefully some UPF protection.  I know that I have a 200 gram REI merino wool shirt that says 50+.

Specifically, I often wear this long sleeved shirt partly for the sun, but who knows if  it’s “working”?  85% merino and 15 percent nylon:

http://www.kuiu.com/hunting-base-layer/ultra-merino-125-ls-crew-t/20015.html?dwvar_20015_color=VerdeCamo&cgid=base-layer#start=2

If you want to add to its sun protective ability, there is a product called Rit Sun Guard that you can buy.  Wash clothing in it, and its SPF supposedly goes up to 35.

The effect is supposed to last for several washinga.

Has anyone tried a Shemagh (Keffiyeh) for sun/wind/sand protection?

If you have, what brand do you like? How do you like it vs hat/bandanna/sunscreen etc?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keffiyeh

…

Read this today:

Performancewear brands to use Polartec cooling fabric

Textile group Polartec has announced the first brands who will use its Delta cooling solution. Westcomb, Outdoor Research, Kitsbow and Velocio will use the fabric in their garments.

The fabric consists of a base layer that provides wicking capabilities, reduces skin cling, regulates drying and is breathable, without any chemical treatments. It is a blend between cotton and polyester and closely replicates the human body’s natural cooling processes.

“Brand partners instantly saw the value in Delta’s permanent cooling capabilities within their garment,“ said Karen Beattie, product marketing manager for base layers at Polartec.
The first garments to feature Polartec Delta will include the Westcomb Bravo Top & Delta Crew, the Outdoor Research Gauge TEE, the Kitsbow Radiator Tee and the Velocio Radiator Baselayer.

Here in New England it’s usually windy enough above treeline and rocky enough (so I need to keep my head looking down), that just my wind shirt with hood up is all the sun protection I need and doesn’t get too hot (I can take off my base layer if necessary).  When really windy, I’ll have my wind pants on too, giving lower torso sun protection, and even put on my Salomon XT Wings gloves, but I’m hairy enough that my lower legs/hands never get sunburned anyway (just the tops of my knees).

In open areas lower down, I’ll put on a little sunblock and wear my old OR Sombrero, which does get me hot, and I’m considering replacing it if I can find another hat that is still wide-brimmed, stays waterproof without needing any care, absorbs sweats, but lighter and breathes better.  For sunblock, I like to use CVS Oil-Free SPF 30 Sunstick, but I don’t use much (tops of knees, outside upper arms, upper cheeks, bridge of my nose).

Night hiking, duh.

Really digging the umbrella as of late.

Cover up other times, hate greasing myself up.

I bought a l/s nylon shirt from Ex Officio 4-5 years ago(Edit: dang it, it’s a Royal Robbins shirt. Every time I mention it, I call it Ex Officio for some reason, then catch the mistake later??). It was actually supposed to be for cutting grass, but it’s also turned into my go-to shirt for bug protection while hiking in the South during the warmer months, and sun protection for kayak floats and going out on a fishing boat every summer.

Hiking is >90% under tree cover in the South, so I rarely have to think about sun protection when backpacking. Normally just use a long baselayer out West since it hasn’t been a big concern on either spring or fall trips to date, but will take it to CO this September since I plan to be above treeline for 4 consecutive days.

Anyway, I wear a Buff  pirate(?)-style to cover the back of my neck, and a Columbia Bora Bora Boonie hat with the EO shirt, and only use sunblock on the backs of my hands if necessary.

Just got back from Florida a few hours ago, and as usual, had no issues being out in direct sun all day…

Last time I was in CO, I was getting roasted, and improvised with a Cap2 zipneck plus Buff as a headsock under a Nike golf cap.

That actually worked quite well, but this time I’ll be better prepared…with my grass-cuttin’ shirt :D

I pretty much only hike in long sleeves and pants (rei sahara shirt and whatever trail pants I grab, I’ve several options from prana/kuhl/rei that have some type of mesh venting through the pockets/nether regions/back of legs)

Don’t have to use much, if any sunblock and they help with bugs as well. I’ll douse myself with water and get everything wet when it’s hot enough to warrant it and I know my clothes will get dry enough to not chafe in a reasonable amount of time.

With the above and a synthetic ball cap, I’m pretty much good to go. I hike with an umbrella as well (chrome dome knockoff) which does double duty past rain protection when the sun is really beating down.

I’m pretty thin and mostly from the south, so my body type and what I’m used to play a role in what allows me to be comfortable.

I’m sure there are better options than the rei sahara ls shirt, but I’ve got really good luck finding them on sale…

I will look into the or echo though, I love hoodys.

I honestly believe that sunblock gives you a false sense of security and probably actually makes you more vulnerable to cancer. It’s nice not to get sunburned, though.

What I do for sun/heat protection is wear long sleeves and fully cover my legs. If it’s hot, I wet my shirt and pour water on my head. I’ll even put snow in my hat.

Recently I got one of Z-packs pointy hats. Really dorky but it keeps the sun off my face and I can use it as a sit pad. You wear it with a visor underneath so air can actually still blow on your head, plus the hat is foam so it provides a little bit of insulation from the sun.

A silver sun umbrella really takes the edge off searing penetrating radioactive desert sun. And you can take off your hat under an umbrella. It’s annoying to carry a little bit but if you’re cool, comfortable and not being fried to a crisp it’s not too bad to hold the umbrella. I prefer to hold it so that I can move it around for maximum sun coverage.

The other day I took a walk in the morning and got hit by the sun and heat unprepared so I draped my long sleeved nylon shirt over my head. That really was comfortable. Cooler than wearing the shirt yet still provided shade. I’m thinking of getting an Indonesian sarong. I’ve heard other people rave about the versatility of a sarong and I think it might really be useful. I could wet it down and drape it over my head when it’s hot, lay it out and sit on it when I rest. These days I’m not so concerned with the absolute lightest lightest if I can be comfortable with a weight penalty that doesn’t break me.

I honestly believe that sunblock gives you a false sense of security and probably actually makes you more vulnerable to cancer.

According to what I hear, that’s because people think that if you apply it once (and mostly with a too low factor), you can get into the sun for longer. Of course, that’s not how it works and even when people are being told (again and again) how to use it properly and are warned about the consequences of not using it in the right way through all sorts of channels, many apparantly choose to ignore that advise.

I only know that for myself it works and that you can see the difference on my skin between me having used it and me having forgotten to apply it (even when it’s pretty cloudy).

As a fair-skinned redhead who grew up in the Ridgecrest desert with a backyard pool and without regularly wearing sunblock and who now has to see a dermatologist twice a year because of a slow-growing melanoma found at the ripe old age of 21, I’m a big fan of this thread!

I LOVE LOVE LOVE my OR Echo shirts. I wish all of my shirts were OR Echos and Icebreaker shirts. I will be wearing my longsleeve Echo hoody on my High Sierra Trail trip in a few weeks, along with an OR Echo buff, a hat, OR Ferrosi convertible pants, and OR Spectrum sun gloves (melanoma was found on the hand, and I’ve since had two more moles removed from my hands. I think this is a critical area prone to burns and cellular damage that people often overlook, so I’m a proponent of sun gloves). I’ll  only wear my pants as shorts if it’s unbearably hot. I may wear my OR Sunrunner hat, but it drives me crazy when there’s wind and it flaps around, so it may stay behind. Plus, the hoody and the buff will protect my neck and ears, so I’ll probably be fine with the less dorky looking hat. ;) I also often hike with an umbrella for sun protection, but I’m not sure if it’ll be worth the weight in the Sierras, as I have yet to figure out how to tie it to my back while holding my trekking poles.

As far as zinc oxide goes, I’m still on the hunt for something non-greasy. I don’t recommend the Badger zinc oxide cream sold at REI because it is very thick and takes a lot to wash it off. I haven’t tried the stick version though. Zinka and Ocean potion are the worst. Since I am only sun screening my face, I’ve been looking for a good zinc stick. I’ve tried one other brand that goes on chalky, but I can’t remember what it’s called (I will check when I get home). Since Neutrogena and Aveeno lotions seem to feel soft on the skin, I’ll be trying out the Aveeno baby sunscreen stick or Neutrogena baby suncreen stick, both of which use titanium and zinc oxide.

@chinookhead I fairly regularly wear my Icebreaker 135g hooded dress while hiking and it works very well in both hot and cool weather. It has Tencel mixed with the merino wool, which supposedly keeps you cooler, but I’m comfortable in it in any weather. I think it feels just fine. I almost always wear the hood for sun protection and I still stay cool.

Thanks to all for the helpful and thoughtful replies, and best wishes and good health to those who are currently dealing with skin cancer.

I ordered the Blue Lizard sport sunblock.  I’ve used it a few times and my general impression is that it’s a bit greasy but is durable seems to get the job done.  I’ve no way to test it for UV-A protection but at least I’m not getting sunburned.

I’m going to continue on with clothing as my primary source of protection and only use sunblock on my cheeks and nose where I have difficulty keeping it properly covered.

I purchased a UV Buff with Insect Guard/shield/whatever and tried it out for the first time today.  Started my climb at 60 degrees and after a few hundred feet of elevation gain, it was becoming uncomfortable and I was really starting to have my doubts.  I wetted it with a few ounces of water and voila, it was far more comfortable than wearing no head cover at all.  It was only a 800′ climb up the hill but I felt that I could’ve kept going for another one or two thousand more feet in comfort without reapplying water.

I’ve tried zinc and titanium but they smear off when I get sweaty and things get messy

Other chemicals work for wavelengths that give you sunburn, but not so good at wavelengths that give you skin cancer and aging.

If you are going to be exposed for a set period of time, then sunscreen is good – protects against sunburn and some cancer/aging.

But if you use sunscreen and then stay out longer as a result, you may be worse off.  You don’t get sunburned but there’s more hidden damage.

Better to have long sleeves, pants, and hat with wide brim all the way around.  That will protect against all wavelengths.  Have long enough sleeves so your hands are totally covered when you curve your fingers.

Moderate sun protection is good, but recommending that every speck of your body needs to be covered is going overboard IMO, unless you have health issues making you at greater risk of skin problems.  I’m following a parallel discussion about whether it’s better to get your vitamin D from diet or sun exposure.  One of the benefits I get from trying to spend a lot of time outdoors hiking is hopefully making all the vitamin D I need.   You have to expose some of your body to do that.  But I also modify my behavior – I try to avoid hiking full speed above treeline under a clear, noon-day sun – that’s the perfect time to take a siesta in a shady spot and spend more time hiking at night.

“Moderate sun protection is good, but recommending that every speck of your body needs to be covered is going overboard IMO, unless you have health issues making you at greater risk of skin problems.”

I’ve had biopsies and a family history of skin cancer.  Others have mentioned here that they have melanoma.

“I’m following a parallel discussion about whether it’s better to get your vitamin D from diet or sun exposure.  One of the benefits I get from trying to spend a lot of time outdoors hiking is hopefully making all the vitamin D I need.”

I live in the desert and get 196 sunny days per year.  For me, I get plenty of exposure in the front country.  My concern is prolonged exposure.  Similar to what David mentioned here or on another thread, I too have had second degree burns from the sun and I don’t care to repeat.

“You have to expose some of your body to do that.  But I also modify my behavior – I try to avoid hiking full speed above treeline under a clear, noon-day sun – that’s the perfect time to take a siesta in a shady spot and spend more time hiking at night.”

Sage advice but I’m also a huge fan of afternoon naps in the shade with a fresh mountain breeze, so I’m biased :)

To each their own, HYOH, and all that.

But if just the back of your hands are exposed, for example, then they’ll get sunburned.  Seems like you need total coverage.

By the way, the back of my hands and chin/lower cheek are sunburned a bit right now.  Not too bad though.  I probably should have used sunscreen.  When I get old I’ll have wrinkled, prunish back of my hands.

Yeah, seems like natural nutrients are better than synthetic.

What do you need to get vitamin D, 15 minutes?  After that, the sun destroys vitamin D as fast as it’s created so there’s no additional benefit.  I wonder what happens if you have sunscreen?  I try to get some exposure, especially in the winter.