SUL being forced upon me

Go no cook.  Have fun and a speedy recovery.

+1 go no cook

Shorten your name to E.B.

Carry your pack on your left shoulder

I hope that the 4 months go by quickly

Another vote for going no cook. My SUL trips are short, usually 2 or 3 days. I can skip cooking that long. I just got done rehabbing a torn rotator cuff from a car accident. I was lucky to avoid the knife. Good luck and don’t skimp on the P.T.!

“Can I start a crowd funding thing here for money to buy light carbon fiber hiking poles?”

I’ve got a pair of Gen 1 Locus Gear CP3 poles you can borrow for four months. Just pay shipping there and back. I only have the smaller baskets, not the ‘snow’ baskets, FWIW.

(Edit to add – unless I know you pretty well, this offer is only for Eric).

GADGETS-> only SPOT locator beacon, map & compass (no camera, cell phone or GPS)

Blimey – inverted priorities there!
Map & compass, absolutely, but skip the SPOT (they don’t work that well anyhow) and take a small camera. Rely on your skills.

Cheers
(and good luck with healing)

You may never go back, Eric.  Get yourself a nice light cuben pack and leave the fancy electronics at home.  Life will be good.

Blimey – inverted priorities there!
Map & compass, absolutely, but skip the SPOT (they don’t work that well anyhow) and take a small camera. Rely on your skills.

Well that’s an unpopular train of thought. How dare you! Relying on skills will put everyone in jeopardy

And I already wished Eric my best in the other thread.

Do you have an actual itemized gear list with weights? I would start with that, putting your gear into a spreadhseet or lighterpack.com. Going UL I easy these days, but getting to SUL is all about the details.

I think I would bring a Steripen. You can often drop a lot of water weight since it will do water almost instantaneously.

Food can be a problem. Most of my pack weight for 3-4 day trips is in the food. Dehydrated foods help, but start looking closely at calorie density. I usually pack foods that will have around 130C/oz average. Flour for cooking/baking/thickening soups/stews is the least dense with around 100C/oz. Knor Sides are around 110/oz. Often, dried beef, jerky, pepperoni & salami are used only for seasoning. Pecans, cashews and walnuts are pretty good. Olive oil/parified butter are excellent. Dark Cocoa/chocolates are good. Even dried onions has ~120C/oz. Potato chips, corn curls, Frito’s,  etc. are all very good at 160C/oz. Vegie chips are around 150C/oz.  For 3000C, you can usually get the weight down to 1.5pound. 2000c/day would be about 1 pound. I usually carry around 1.1pound per day and plan on loosing about 5pounds per week while hiking one or two week trips.  Pack small and dense. You should be able to get out for three days with 3pounds of food.

The sleeping bag is ok at 1.5pounds but you might look into a quilt. These would save a half pound or more.

I would recommend dropping the Osprey. You can use a normal backpack like a 20116 Murmur. Make sure it is LIGHT and has a good internal frame (or pad in the case of a Murmur. You can likely put the pad in the keepers making it very space efficient.) Cinch the hip belt fairly tight, with a 15pound pack it should only put about 5pounds of pressure on your shoulders, or, about 2.5pounds on each.) I could never get comfortable with a single strap pack. Except for riding, it always felt a little off balance. Just insure that the shoulder straps do not get tight. (I have been dealing with some screwed up disks across my neck, into my shoulders for many years.)

A small 6’x9′ flat tarp would be about 6yd and weigh about 8-9oz. If you are not taking the inner for the Moment, a smaller tarp can work, too. SUL demands a very small tarp. Easy enough to make.

I think I would avoid using hiking poles. These can cause painful shoulders. Just pick up a stick somewhere if you need them to ford a creek, or for ascents/descents. But be careful…they can antagonize the surgery.

Clothing is clothing…you need enough to stay warm and not weigh too much. Nuf’said.

Pack; why not look at a waist pack? Zimmer has done some before, I think called Halfpack (but now that I search I can’t seem to find them). Pretty impressive looking, would be great for SUL and/or hot conditions and/or shoulder injury.

Zimmer also made the Bandoleer “sling”-style pack for one shoulder carry.

Jamie wrote a review awhile back.

Best of luck, Eric!

First of all, I cannot for the life of me fathom how any shoulder repair would cause you to NOT be able to carry whatever you wanted in a backpack.  I’m pretty sure your surgeon doesn’t realize how a backpack works…because even with the damned sling on you could still carry a good pack.

The glenohumeral joint (the specific arm/shoulder socket joint that is the basis for any rotator cuff repair, or biceps tenodesis, or any of those common repairs) has absolutely NOTHING to do with carrying a backpack.  Not one bit.  Now, make sure you don’t use that arm to put ON the backpack, but other than that your surgeon is full of crap.

HOWEVER….

this might be a great time to get you out of your LL Bean, Eddie Bauer and Osprey Exos love fest and actually get you some true ultralight gear…so maybe I should be quiet here…..

First of all, I cannot for the life of me fathom how any shoulder repair would cause you to NOT be able to carry whatever you wanted in a backpack.

True perhaps … but maybe getting the pack on & off the shoulders would put strain on the healing tendons?

Eric, I’ve had the same surgery (tendon re-attachment) twice, once on each shoulder.  As Jennifer notes above, I do not believe that SUL vs UL vs just lightweight will have much to do with your ability to backpack.  You will encounter several other challenges…most having to do with re-stretching tendons that tighten during your time in the sling and rebuilding muscle mass in your arm and shoulder).  You do want to be careful with the repair during the early stages of recovery.  I would even suggest that you might want to consider using a hiking staff (on your good side) rather than hiking poles.  You’ll quickly recover the range of motion necessary for hiking poles but I would worry about inadvertently using my recovering arm/shoulder to break a fall if I were to use a hiking pole on the weak side.  Your doctor and/or physical therapist should be able to give you a timeline for when different types of uses can be safely undertaken.  I can get a lot more specific about the recovery/PT phase if you’re interested.

As mentioned above, the only issue I see is getting the pack on and off – what’s in it, or how much it weighs, honestly is irrelevant.

Shoulder surgeries, frankly, suck – and I do my best to talk people out of them and work really hard to make them un-needed.  But if you truly have tried GOOD PT prior (and I mean a lot of it…) and you are convinced this is the route to take, then know that the first month you aren’t really going to want to do ANYTHING, let along backpack.  You’ll be lucky to get a good night’s sleep in a recliner.

THEN, once that initial nasty phase is over, and as you begin to use your muscles and the PT starts really moving your shoulder in places you really, really don’t want him to, you’ll get really good at putting on a shirt without killing yourself.  At that point you should be just fine using that finely honed skill of shirt-donning to put on your backpack – yes, even your heavy overbuilt monstrosity of an Osprey Exos 58.

Feel free to PM me with anything, Eric – any questions about your surgery, rehab, PT recommendations, stuff your PT or MD say that is very anti-backpacking, etc etc.  I’ll be more than happy to help inject some realism into your rehab.

Good luck!  And remember…pain is weakness leaving your body……….

;)

Totally agree with Jennifer’s characterization of the early stages of recovery from tendon reattachment shoulder surgery.  I tried to avoid talking about how much it hurts both in the first 4 weeks and once again when your PT starts to stretch you out in order to regain range of motion.

I am a huge fan of getting the tendon repair done if that is your doctor’s recommendation.  In my case, both shoulders are essentially like new.  You have to be committed and diligent in going to PT, however, and its a big time commitment.  You also need to remain active as I’ve noticed that the shoulder will tend to tighten up again if it is not getting regular exercise and range of motion stretching for at least a couple of years after surgery.

Guys, Thanks for the condolences and advice. I agree on the no-cook advice. I’ve done it when hunting to offset the weight of a scoped rifle. Done right it’s not bad, especially of you have good fruitcake (yes) and good craft cheeses.  I could use my folding 3 leg BPL ESBIT burner & foil windscreen for hot drinks or soup. I always carry it on group day hikes. And on a group backpack I could pay a friend to be a “stove porter” and share a stove.

Jennifer,

Since I have two screws in my left shoulder I am very familiar with the P.T. drill to restore range of motion and strength. My left arm now has full range of motion and strength. I had 4 months of P.T. because my therapist said he extended my therapy by two months to get me back to the “unusually high level of fitness for a man of your age.” It was a compliment followed by a tough regimen. He is a taskmaster extraordinaire.

My right shoulder has two bone spurs that have literally worn away at my subscapularis tendon (partial tear), my supraspinatus tendon (full tear) and part of my bicep tendon (partial tear). You can see the fluid buildup at the ends of these tears on the MRI images. I also have a “Distal rotator cuff impingement”.

So… at least two screws, but likely three, to attach the stitching line from the tendons and also shaving off the two bone spurs.

Yes, for the first two months I have to avoid tripping or any other quick movement that would tear anything. After the shoulder calms down and truly begins to heal I may be able to backpack on good trails with no scrambling involved. Thank God for sternum straps to help keep shoulder straps from migrating out toward the shoulder.  I think one hiking pole would suffice for a while but having been an XC racer and patroller I really like to use both poles almost constantly to aid in both propulsion and balance.

I realize most 72 year olds would pass on the surgery and limit the use of their arm but I can’t live like that and give up backpacking, sea kayaking and skiing. “Better to wear out than rust out.”

Well Eric, if you have full ROM (range of motion) of your shoulder, is it pain that you still have?  Because honestly more than 75% of people over the age of 60 have full and partial rotator cuff tears and are perfectly fine.

I even had an ophthalmologist and wildlife photographer (read: lots of outstretched arm movements) who fell down a flight of stairs and completely ruptured every tendon holding his arm in place…they couldn’t stitch anything back together.  Once he finished rehab with us he had full, complete use of both of his arms and was very happy.

There was a great piece just published in American Journal of Orthopedics (a journal for SURGEONS!) that said more than 92% of people are fully functional after rehab and don’t need RTC repairs.  We generally discourage most people from even considering the surgery, especially if they are active and have good range of motion.  Just saying…..

Jen,

I have full range of motion but not full strength in every aspect. Where I have less strength it’s due to pain. Sea kayaking is definitely out.

I don’t se how rehab can re-attach my tendons and that’s what seems to be causing the pain and weakness.

I’ll show my MRIs to my physical therapist and see what he thinks about rehab only. I trust him totally.

Jen,

I have full range of motion but not full strength in every aspect. Where I have less strength it’s due to pain. Sea kayaking is definitely out.

I don’t se how rehab can re-attach my tendons and that’s what seems to be causing the pain and weakness.

Taking your advice (and to avoid a painful surgical recovery) I’ll show my MRIs to my physical therapist and see what he thinks about rehab only. I trust him totally.

I’m with Eric on this one.  PT alone was unable to help me eliminate the pain.  I’ve been thru the tendon attachment process twice, and the associated PT, and I am extremely happy with the outcome (i.e., no pain and full ROM).

I’ve had two rotator cuff injuries. One in my 30’s and one in my 40’s… (rock climbing and ice hocky :)

I opted for no surgery both times. At the time the docs thought I was crazy. With PT, deep tissue massage, and 2 intensive stretching sessions a day I managed to get most of my range of motion back in about 6 months. It took a year before it felt completely normal.

When I told this story to my current orthopedic surgeon/doc a few months ago he was impressed and basically said they don’t always recommend surgery these days for rotator cuff injuries. I asked what they recommend. He said, in effect, that the recommend what I did 20 years ago! You have to do the same PT work and stretching whether you get the surgery or not.

I once knew a guy had two rotator cuff tears… one in each shoulder… at the same time!. He had the surgery on both at the same time, but did not do the PT work or the stretching. Everything seized up and he had to have the surgeries again!!! As a result he became a true believer in the PT and stretching :)

Shoulder injures are a bitch. I really don’t think you’re going to want to do any backpacking for a few months. It was a couple of months before I could flick a paper towel off the roll without pain or use that arm to turn the steering wheel in my car. Or lay comfortably in bed. It seems like it takes forever, but little by little recovery happens. And before you know it, you’re better and back out backpacking and other crazy stuff.

billy

Eric, I really hate to say this, after great dialog, excellent input from your peers, and your own experience having had shoulder surgery previously…why in the world would you start a thread suggesting that SUL was being forced on you?

Are you trying to establish a plausible reason to spend money to lighten your load when in fact you, having gone through the experience previously, and the views from others having the same experience, would suggest that lightening your load via SUL has little to no benefit to your ability to backpack during recovery.

if you’re trying to play your wife or significant other then i applaud you…wish i would have thought of it several years ago.  If not, what’s up?

As the feedback has stated, there is very little if any benefit…which i would assume you already know based on your experience.

Kevin,

I think Eric was looking for a little tongue-in-cheek sympathy. It’s tough to get sidelined or somewhat restricted from something you like to do.