Suggestions for increasing quilt warmness

Any of your suggestions will work.  None will be as weight efficient as a warmer quilt.

If you’re an active sleeper, or often sleep in windy areas, a mummy sack may be a good idea.

A splash bivy will also help with wind, but only adds 5F or so in actual insulation value.  Adding a second quilt or blanket is another option.  Costco often carries cheap down blankets.  They’re not as light for their insulation as a backpacking quilt, but they are cheap, and good quality.

If you’d like warmer clothing to wear around camp regardless of your sleeping situation, you may as well start there and keep it on when you go to bed.  I cary down pants for exactly this reason.

You might also try carrying a battery powered indoor/outdoor thermometer/hygrometer.  These are small, light, cheap, and have a remote probe to let you measure conditions inside and outside your tent over night.  Knowing what the overnight low was, relative humidity, and insulation provided by your shelter can help you figure out what your sleeping metabolism is and what shelter and insulation you’ll want for expected conditions.

First question I will ask if how tired were you, and did you eat/drink enough? One of the “coldest” nights was when it was 20F above my quilt’s comfort base, but I had given someone my dinner.

Second…  seemed you are missing a hat (or insulated hood).  This will make a big difference.  In warmer weather the hood from Patagonia cap4 (thermal weight) + wind shirt or a buff are enough.  When it’s getting down to 30F I want something like a downworks Balaclava.

Unless the wind was really blowing and you were feeling a draft, the “quilt cover” typically a DWR only bivy (I use a MLD Superlite) won’t add that much warmth… maybe 5-10F depending on how much you move and leak your warmth.

You could do warmer clothing, but remember you need a lot more insulation to sleep than when you are moving. [Insulation notes] Clothing which boasts your warmth enough to sleep might be too warm for day time use.

Generally doing 2 quilts is not weight efficient… you are using a bunch of weight for extra  fabric and less for the insulation. If you can afford it, you might want to consider upgrading your 30F to a warmer quilt or sleeping bag.  Until it’s seriously below freezing, I found quilts are lighter / warmth than bags.

I would second Rene suggestion of some sort of logging thermometer. Over time it will help you dial in what you need to stay comfortable.

–mark

You don’t say what the evening low temperatures were or if you were in a tent….

Not to be too simplistic, but did you cinch the quilt down with the 4 enclosed tie-downs?  I have that quilt and found that I could be comfortable down to the mid-30’s IF I used 3 of the 4 cinch chords, wore warm dry socks, dry pj’s/base layers, and wore a hat.  I couldn’t really stay very warm if I did not anchor the cinch straps.

So many things contribute to staying warm:  hydration, food intake, alcohol intake, wearing the day’s sweaty clothes vs dry jammies/base layers, and of course those vary for everyone.  Hope you can figure something out!

another option- think about switching your pad- the Nemo has a r rating of 3.5, the Thermarest Xtherm is double that- same weight (and dimensions)

or add a ccf pad to your existing pad

bringing a heavier down jacket doesn’t make a ton of sense, ditto on the down pants- if they aren’t needed outside your sleep system- they are deadweight.

does the sweater have a hood?  was it used?  as others have mentioned, with a quilt- adequate headwear is a must

I have nothing technical to add, all of these comments seem solid. Maybe a liner? But that is only good for 5-10 degrees. I only thought of that because of the mention of the $20 Costco down blanket, as that and a liner was my sleep system last weekend on a kayak overnight in the Sierra foothills. Just warm enough at 50 degrees F! One data point.

Really though, we are all jealous about the Yosemite trip…

As mentioned, a bite to eat , preferably fatty, before bed helps.  Hydration.  What I find for myself is acclimation.  Living in a house ninety nine percent of the time then living outside for a few days can be bone chilling , at first, even with mild temps.  You’ll get used to it.

Don’t sleep in the pants (or underwear) you hiked in.  99% of the time the waistband(s) will be damp with sweat, and you’ll feel that deeply every time you move and pull a little fresh air under the quilt.

Be sure to wear some fluffy loose socks (that you didn’t wear hiking).

“another option- think about switching your pad- the Nemo has a r rating of 3.5, the Thermarest Xtherm is double that- same weight (and dimensions)

or add a ccf pad to your existing pad”

+1 to what Mike said.

Given that EN/ISO rated sleeping bags are tested with about R5.5 of insulation, it’s no surprise your quilt was struggling to keep you warm. Personally, I use a 50d quilt in the summer, and I, too was also “chilly” this past weekend, when the temperature hit the low 50’s. Even though I had two 1/8″ ccf foam pads sandwiching an X-Lite, I was only wearing silk long underwear/shirt. I could have layered up a bit more but chose to snuggle closer to my wife & dog instead. I had forgotten pack my thin beanie and my down vest – both of which would have helped out immensely.  But I believe adding the ccf pad is the best option, since it becomes a very versatile piece of “comfort gear” when you’re at rest.

And 1/8″ pads are easy to fold up.

I haven’t used the NEMO Tensor insulated, but based on a R3.5 rating and reviews by others, I suspect it should have been fine to 30F.  I have used a neo-air uberlite (R2.3?) down to 27F without issue… thought I was careful to be on pine needles rather than exposed granite or snow.

The poster should know / be able to share… when I have had an inadequate pad I could feel cold seeping in from below me.  It’s very apparent when using a quilt, especially when you aren’t wearing insulated clothing.

Here is what I have done. Someone needs to make a commercial product of this.

I recently spent the most comfortable night out, and I had made 3 changes, but they were in opposite directions.  1) I used a Goosefeet down pillowcase. Air mattress + air pillow =  no insulation under my head, especially since I have trouble finding a hat that will stay on. 2) The new Neoair mattress has just slightly higher R rating compared to the old one. I sleep on a regular wide so that my arms have pad underneath them. 3) When I went to bed, I wore less on my legs than usual. It was pretty warm,  and I did not sweat within the quilt, then get clammy because of it. I did have down booties on my feet.

In my experience there is no substitute for a sleeping bag or quilt that is a little bit warmer than you need. That way, it’s simple, no extra stuff, the bag/quilt just plain works..and you won’t spend an eternally long night in that bodily state where you are not shivering, but you are definitely not warm enough to sleep. Plus, yeah, your pad has to be warm enough and you need a good hat and or separate down hood (like the X-packs/goosefeet gear hood).

I am in a similar dilemma. I have the REI quilt that keeps me warm at 30F and will be going to the Sierra in mid September. I need to add 10-15F to the bag. Would a 1lb Costco down quilt with the REI quilt get me 10-15F more warmth?

Also, what do most people have for quilts? A 20F and a 40F?

Stopping drafts will make a huge difference. A down hood, a bivysack, or a wind tight shelter all could help stop drafts.

For colder than normal nights I typically pull my rain coat over the outside of the foot end of the sleeping bag, augment the pad with my empty pack, pitch my tarp to the ground on the windward side at my feet. Finally I bring some extra fuel and boil a quart of water for a hot water bottle. Put it in a sock and its good for about 6 hours of warmth. If you keep your stove nearby you can even make more in the early hours without leaving your bag entirely.

However as most have said, in the end if most of your nights require such bundling, it will be worth it to get a warmer bag, especially if you have a bad night due to illness, wet weather or exhaustion.

I have used a layering system that I like with a down inner and a synthetic outer. This I use for long winter trips where moisture build up is an issue. It is easier to dry the outer layer which gets wet from condensation at the dew point and from snow/drips from the outside.

A problem which gets reported all the time here is sleeping cold when the quilt ought to be enough. In most cases a good upgrade to the pad has solved the problem.
FWIIW

Cheers

” In most cases a good upgrade to the pad has solved the problem.”

As was said before, If I go on a trip with a sleeping bag which is ISO/EN rated to 30 degrees, that means that it “should” be generally adequate down to 30 degrees, ASSUMING I AM SLEEPING WITH AT LEAST R-5.5 OF INSULATION UNDER ME.

If I choose to use less insulation under me, I might be able to over compensate on top of me to help offset the difference, if I am expecting to remain comfortable enough to fall asleep. Even then, all the blankets in the world on top of me wont help me stay warm enough if I am sleeping on a block of ice. Unless I am sleeping on a 90 degree slab of granite, managing ground conductive heat loss must be treated with the same respect as managing heat loss from above.

Unfortunately, most people’s sleeping pad choices are woefully inadequate, and they immediately believe their sleeping bag is to blame for their discomfort. Having worked at REI for many years, I can’t tell you how many folks returned their sleeping bags because they thought the bags didn’t perform to their advertised specs, even though it was due entirely to not using enough ground insulation.

R level ratings for pads and their comfort level/warmth have been all over the place in my experience. Just like quilt and sleeping bag manufacturers fudge on how warm their bag should be, so do some pad makers.

Unlike sleeping bag makers who mostly follow the EN/ISO 23537 standard for temperature ratings, no similar standard exists for quilt makers. As with sleeping bags in years past, some quilt temperature ratings may be more trustworthy than others.

And sleeping bag EN temperature ratings are based on an R 4.8 sleeping pad, a light layer of head-to-toe clothing, and almost no wind. In my experience, a warm-enough sleeping pad makes a big difference.

— Rex

look at the amount of fill in the Magma (10.5 oz of 850, size regular)- that should put it pretty close to it’s 30 degree based on an “average” sleeper and with the appropriate base layers and head insulation

if you don’t want to invest in a new pad (the Xtherm would certainly be enough pad for 30 degree weather at no weight penalty), simply try a cheaper ccf pad in conjunction with your Nemo and see what that does

Closed Cell Foam pads are also a good backup for leaky air filled pads, or a good substitute for them in cactus country.

A torso sized 1/2″ thick with a 2+ R rating is around 5 ounces. Stack on your summer pad and you should be good to go for constant sub freezing temps.

when I use my Uberlite pad there is almost always a chance of freezing weather so I carry a 20×40″ 3/8″ ccf pad with it to put under my torso; it’s scored like a z-rest pad so folds up nicely-does double duty as my sit/kneel pad- weighs a whopping 3.4 oz

In the colder months for the last few years I have been bringing my 20 degree quilt and my 45 degree Jacks R Better wearable quilt. I think that a costco quilt is rated to 50. The JRB quilt makes all the difference. I feel warm like home and sleep so much better.

The balaclava has been mentioned. I just want to second this. Many people seem to be ok in quilt by just using the hood on their ul puffy and a hat.

If you are pushing your quilt down towards freezing or below, head insulation approaching the loft of your quilt is in order. Your 30 degree rated quilt has a specific amount of loft that provides the insulation necessary to insulate  your stationary body at 30 degrees. Only jackets made for deep winter would have hoods with the loft to provide this level of insulation.

For example, the EE torrid puffy is a very popular and very warm-for-weight ul puffy. I believe it uses 2.2oz/yard climashield insulation. If you made a quilt with 2.2oz/yard insulation it would not be very warm. I believe EE makes quilts and bags with 2.2oz/yard climashield and rates them to 50 degrees. For 30 degree quilts they use 6oz/yard climashield. Even if you wear a fleece hat under the torrid hood,  your head and neck will be significantly less insulated than the rest of your body if you are using a 30 degree rated quilt. If your head and neck don’t feel directly cold, this can still lead to you feeling chilly overall.

I use a puffy beanie with 5oz/yard climashield that I sewed at home. It weighs about 1.5oz. My puffy jacket is baggy so I can wear the puffy hat under the hood without too much loss of loft. If it is going to be 40 or below I want to have the puffy hat. A puffy hat or balaclava like this is generally too warm to wear unless you are stationary, and people like to have a fleece or wool hat that is comfortable over a wider range of temperatures and output levels. At 1-2 ounces for the seperate hi loft head insulation, its worth it to me to bring in addition to a hat.

Happiness is a warm head. Our quilts have full hoods, and we sleep with the hood over our head. Very happy.

Cheers