Topic

Storm level class system


Forum Posting

A Membership is required to post in the forums. Login or become a member to post in the member forums!

Home Forums Off Piste Mountaineering & Alpinism Storm level class system

Viewing 19 posts - 1 through 19 (of 19 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #3371359
    Dan Geiger
    Spectator

    @strat

    Is there a measurement for rating mountain storms similar to rating whitewater levels ?

    The reason i ask is i am trying to figure out what kind of storm level various types of shelters have been designed for .

    #3371453
    Roger Caffin
    BPL Member

    @rcaffin

    Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe

    Not any official system as you describe, but wind speed is a good substitute.

    Turbulance is also a very significant factor, but there is no measure for that.

    cheers

     

    #3371455
    Ken Thompson
    BPL Member

    @here

    Locale: Right there

    My scale

    It’s only drizzling

    Yes, it’s raining

    Man, it’s really coming down

    I’m not going out in that

    You’re gonna die out there

    #3371509
    Dan Geiger
    Spectator

    @strat

    Well KT i’m looking for something between your level 4 and 5 above treeline and 50 + mile per hour winds.Oh and under 3 pounds .I have been looking at the usual 4 season tents ( a little heavy)but i am intrigued by the mids with a bivy as well.Just not sure i can trust anything other than a free standing 4 season tent.This is for solo use.

    #3371511
    Ken Thompson
    BPL Member

    @here

    Locale: Right there

    Mids all the way for me.

    #3371517
    Ryan Jordan
    Admin

    @ryan

    Locale: Central Rockies

    Having spent many nights in a mid in the type of winds you are talking about is a pretty Insecure thing. Occasionally it’s OK but 50 mph is seriously pushing the limits of ultralight shelters.

    Sounds like the type of weather for a well-pitched 3-pole tunnel tent.

    #3371525
    Franco Darioli
    Spectator

    @franco

    Locale: Gauche, CU.

    Just as a suggestion, when reading about “experienced” wind speeds , in most cases it has to do with how we interpret wind speed not the real (measured on the spot, not 30 miles away…) wind speed.
    Most people tend to grossly over-estimate the wind speed they have experienced.

    #3371538
    Jerry Adams
    BPL Member

    @retiredjerry

    Locale: Oregon and Washington

    do tent manufacturers specify a maximum wind speed?

    and is there any consistency between manufacturers?

    I don’t think so

    yeah, mid blows around a lot above 30 MPH or whatever, maybe a tunnel tent like Roger’s would be better

    #3371549
    Tipi Walter
    BPL Member

    @tipiwalter

    We have many open bald mountaintops in TN and NC and Virginia which can get walloped with high winds and become Tent Testing Facilities at the whim of Miss Nature.

    There are Six Categories of Rain and the Six Defcon Levels of Cold, but mountain winds have no such levels, except those based on Locomotive Sound and the degree of sphincter-tightening such winds produce.  It’s therefore a personal scale or a scale based on Two Criteria:  Is the tent still up or has it shredded and collapsed?

    If you’re brave enough to set up in such a wind atop an exposed ridge or bald, and you have the proper shelter to handle the beast, what’s the problem?

    The problem usually arises in this scenario:  You set up at 6,000 feet in an open meadow with calm conditions at 20F.  No problem.  No point in practicing “better site selection.”  Then at 2am the sky turns mean and nasty with 60mph gusts in a whiteout blizzard.  You hope your tool for yesterday becomes a new tool for the morning as the job just changed.

    In January 2006 I was atop a 5,300 bald in NC in my Hilleberg Nammatj 3 tent and got walloped with a tremendous all night banshee windstorm hitting from all directions.  I placed rocks on the tent pegs cuz they kept pulling out of the ground.  One tent pole was bent.

    Another time I was caught in a Hilleberg Staika during a butt cold sleet storm in February 2007 and got walloped by another beautiful glance from Miss Nature.

    In May 2009 I was camping on another open bald and had a friend’s tent get walloped by a surprise windstorm.

    One of my worst windstorms was on Haw Knob in NC at 5,500 feet whereby my Staika tent got layed out flatter than normal despite the 14 stakes and 6 guyline pegs.

    As a footnote, my backpacking buddy Hoppin John was on top of Bob Mt in NC with his Allak tent and got hit with a tremendous hellstorm which actually ripped off the guyline tabs from this tent and he had to do a A.M. bail off the mountain.  A week later I went up and found several pieces of his gear strewn across the mountainside.

    #3371564
    Ken Thompson
    BPL Member

    @here

    Locale: Right there

    Site selection. My Unna didn’t budge in 60 mph winds. So yes if you are willing to take a tank out with you and pitch in a suboptimal site then some super robust portable house would be better than a mid.

    Trailstar.

    #3371605
    Roger Caffin
    BPL Member

    @rcaffin

    Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe

    I like Ken’s scale. My variation:

    0: Still air: lots of condensation inside the tent

    1: Mild breeze: that should keep the inside of the tent dry overnight

    2: Windy: close the windward door down a bit for comfort

    3: Blowing pretty hard: shut the windward door completely

    4: Storm: storm guys out, maybe some rocks around the edge of the tent

    5: Bad storm: storm guys, rock wall at the windward edge, rocks on the stakes, keep spare gear packed up inside

    6: Really, really bad storm: you don’t try standing up, just crawl around when pulling the tent down

    As several have mentioned, tunnels are good for all of these.

    Cheers

     

    #3371620
    Tipi Walter
    BPL Member

    @tipiwalter

    Roger:  That’s a good list and I need to sit down sometime and give it more thought.  I think the Inuit have about 50 words just for Wind.  I only have about 10 and most of those are obscene.

    But I’ve spent enough time on ridgetops in windstorms to understand some of their cycles.  I equate a windstorm to either ocean waves coming in and crashing against the shore (the shore being your tent), or a locomotive, or a screaming F-4 Phantom fighter jet passing overhead in a microburst.

    So for a backpacker I break windstorms into some simple categories:

    **  Gusts and Lulls.

    **  Storm Climax.

    Every windstorm seems to have a beginning, a middle, a climax (hold on!!), and an ending. Within this are your Gusts (locomotives) and your Lulls (what happened?).  Often you can hear a terrible sound coming towards you and your camp—hence the F-4 appellation—and you dread the result because it sounds much worse than the others.

    Then there’s the CLIMAX GUST which every windstorm seems to have.  It will be off the scale and a final insult—a big slap in the face at 70mph during a regular 40mph storm.  Where does it comes from?  Why does it sound so bad?  And yes, like in a movie the climax-gust means the back of the storm has been broken and the storm prepares for its slow end.

    And finally, there are the hellstorms which swirl in every direction and slap you silly.  The banshee jumps on your tent and slams the roof down onto your head and shoulders and with this comes That Damn Sound of another terrible gust.  I think the Inuit say that after three days in a windstorm you will go crazy.

    We don’t get Inuit winds here in North Carolina and on our ridgetops but we do get some real contenders.  And I know for a fact that after 3 days in a mountaintop wind I’ve about had enough.

    #3371622
    Tipi Walter
    BPL Member

    @tipiwalter

    Oh, and don’t let anyone tell you that our North Carolina winds are nonciphers or nonstarters or don’t count.  We recently had a windstorm on Grandfather Mountain (and very close to where I routinely winter camp) clocked at over 200mph.

    http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/weather/news/2006-01-29-record-wind_x.htm

    http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php/8365-192-Mph-Wind-Recorded-at-Grandfather-Mountain-%28WNC%29

     

    #3371656
    Dan Geiger
    Spectator

    @strat

    Great posts fellas.Currently using my ID wedge bivy for  quick trips.I suspect it is bombproof .But for longer trips with the possibility of  weathering multiday storms i have been looking for something i can sit up in.Just trying to understand the stormworthiness of the mids.I trip in the Northern rockies for two weeks a year and the weather is unpredictable but the weight saving game is always a temptation.This year i was considering just using my ID Wedge with a siltarp 2 as a canopy but those mids sure look simple.

    Prefer side entry which is why i have not considered a tunnel and along with the Akto   not completely freestanding.The Soulo ,Unna and possibly Tarptent scarp with extra poles i’m thinking the soulo may be the most stormworthy.

     

     

    #3371673
    Roger Caffin
    BPL Member

    @rcaffin

    Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe

    Hi Tipi

    Different places, different weather. One of our Main Range storms can last for 24 – 48 hours at a constant intensity. Gusts, Lulls and Climaxes need not apply.

    Cheers

     

     

    #3371674
    Roger Caffin
    BPL Member

    @rcaffin

    Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe

    Hi Dan

    I am afraid none of the tents you mentioned would fit in my classification of being seriously storm-worthy. The lengths of the poles and the distances between the pole are all much too big.

    Cheers

     

    #3372091
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    I had pretty good luck last time I called my tent manufacturer (Big Agnes).  and asked them about winds limits on my model. The guy in their repair shop is pretty geeky about fabric and pole technology. He also gets to see where the tents fail when he’s patching them up…

    I suspect the same holds true of the other mid sized suppliers.

     

    #3372134
    Tipi Walter
    BPL Member

    @tipiwalter

    Craig—So enough teasing, what the heck did the Big Agnes expert have to say about the wind limits on your model???????

    Of course, no indoor expert’s counsel will duplicate a real storm in whatever tent we choose to use.

    But as a footnote, a buddy and I were on a high open bald hellstorm in December 2012 and he was a couple hundred feet away in his Big Agnes tent—check out his report—

    http://www.trailspace.com/forums/trip-reports/topics/137756.html

    His tent actually survived the maelstrom so that says something about Big Agnes.

    Patman with his Big Agnes preparing for a 10F night.

    #3466393
    Edward John M
    BPL Member

    @moondog55

    Don’t forget windshear and microbursts.

    Like Roger I camp in an area where really bad weather can last a week but unlike the Main Range there are usually enough sheltered or semi sheltered spots to reduce the wind to somewhat less than Storm Force. But I usually lose at least one cheap base camp tent a season.

    it’s why my back-up tent is a 4 pole hybrid tunnel

    LW and UL tents simply will not survive where I ski and camp when it gets bad and it  always get bad if you are up there for long enough.

    I’m a reasonably big bloke and I have been picked up and blown metres by wind gusts at times, as Roger said you don’t stand up when packing the gear away

     

Viewing 19 posts - 1 through 19 (of 19 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
Forum Posting

A Membership is required to post in the forums. Login or become a member to post in the member forums!

Get the Newsletter

Get our free Handbook and Receive our weekly newsletter to see what's new at Backpacking Light!

Gear Research & Discovery Tools


Loading...