Sleeping pads, R value, weight

The original Neo Air was indeed rated at R2.5.
Can’t remember the type of mat BPL sold but this will give you an idea of the R values according to size :
3/8″ = ~1.36 *
1/4″ = ~.90
1/8″ = ~.45
add one on top of the other and you know the R value of your existing system.

*From Richard Nisley

I use an x therm, it’s one of the best gear purchases I have made. I don’t consider it heavy. The x lite is 12 ounces with an r value of 3.2 and has a 30 denier bottom. The x therm is 15 ounces with an r value of 5.7 a 70 denier bottom. So for 3 more ounces I get a 4 season pad with a very durable bottom. I have talked to people who have lots of holes in their 30 denier x-lites. Totally worth the extra 3 ounces for a solid do it all pad. The x therm is the only pad I own and I don’t see a reason to get a slightly lighter pad for warmer weather use.

For your purposes it would be by far the most weight efficient way to stay warmer sleeping on the snow.

it sounds like I need the xtherm for winter tent camping. It doesn’t sound like I can move from an r value of 2.5 to the xtherm r value of 5.7 without covering the weight difference.

For summer use though, I can’t justify the extra 6 oz. FWIW, I don’t have the xlite, I have the previous version. It has held up wonderfully, so no complaints there…and I may just swap to hammock solo camping in the summer…

I always found that by putting the foam pad on top of the NeoAir it was noticeably warmer, as opposed to under the NeoAir. With my older NeoAir and a 1/8″ CCF pad on top, I was warm at 20F. At around 15F I would feel cold spots while moving around. Much lower than that and it was time for a 1/4″ pad instead of the 1/8″ pad. Maybe try putting the foam pad on top.

+1 on putting the foam pad on top – it makes a noticeable difference. Seems to add at 10 degrees worth of sleeping comfort with my setup using a newer NeoAir and 1/8″ pad doubled up for the torso.

As to vapor barrier pants/socks, I would skip those in favor of a 3 ounce home-made vapor barrier liner (VBL). Provided that you can tolerate using a VBL, it’s the lightest way I’ve found to add sleeping comfort in lower temperatures. My 3 ounce VBL made from trash bag heat sealed together adds at least 10 degrees of comfort to my sleep system and I only get moderately clammy inside it. If you sweat a lot, then a VBL may not work for you – it’s a very personal thing. Only way to know if you like it is to try it out.

The first problem is that you don’t know what the nighttime temps were but at 16*F daytime temps you were probably at or below 0*F in a 15* bag, so both your pad and bag may be inadequate.

It is amazing how many people skimp on ground insulation and a testiment to how far we have come that you consider a full length 2.5″ thick 15oz pad good to below zero heavy.  A few years ago you would be well above 20oz for a similar pad.

If you don’t want the Xtherm you may exparament with the cc foam pad on top and see if that helps. I have found cc foam warmer than its r value implies (it could just be me) but I think you will need at least a 1/4″ or 3/8″ pad to get the warmth addition to your neoair you are looking for.  If that doesn’t work the Xtherm is an excellent (but pricy) pad.

You might also look at your bag in those temps as you were obviously well below the bags rating. Supplementing with clothing makes sense if you need extra warmth occasionally but if you do it often a warmer bag is probably in order.

I have only tested the Xtherm down to single digits but it was very warm

Sorry, the 16deg was actually the windchill, so at night it may have been around 15 deg. I typically think I sleep hot, but definitely the 3/4 length pad simply doesn’t work in the winter for me, even with the foam pad.

I think I want to start camping more in the winter, so either I need to pick up an Xtherm or consider a hammock quilt that is sufficient. I’m not sure which is more cost effective.

+1 for the Xtherm. It is an investment but imo it’s worth every penny and ounce.