May 7, 2020 at 5:14 pm #3645671
I have a Six Moons Designs Deschutes tarp that I have not used yet, but was wondering where their tarp/shelters are made. No tag in the tarp itself, but the stuff sacks has a tag from China. Should I assume it’s all made in China?May 7, 2020 at 8:57 pm #3645705David UBPL Member
Yes. All of their product is manufactured in China. I believe it has been like this for the past 2-3 years.May 7, 2020 at 8:59 pm #3645706Mark RiesBPL Member
Yes but I’ve had two tents/tarps of theirs both wild oasis and felt they have held up well then there is my LHG SOLO that I stepped on floor with my microspikes on amazingly little damage couple little pin holes I’ve been happy with both brands made in chinaMay 11, 2020 at 6:37 am #3646270Marc PenanskyBPL Member
@marcpenLocale: Western NC
LightHeart Gear tents have been exclusively made in the US (near Asheville, NC) since 2012 in our own sewing factory.May 11, 2020 at 11:24 am #3646312Brad RogersBPL Member
@mocs123Locale: Southeast Tennessee
Yes, Six Moon Designs and Gossamer Gear both shipped manufacturing overseas a few years ago, and Tarptent is now going that route. I’m sure cheaper labor is part of the allure, but I believe all three have also cited not being able to find enough qualified quality seamstresses. I used a lot of Gossamer Gear products in the mid 2000’s and recently bought a Jet pack for work, and the fit and finish/sewing quality on the Jet is far superior to their old stuff. I think the Jet was made in Vietnam.May 11, 2020 at 1:38 pm #3646340
I have your FireFly and SoLong 6 on my list. Definitely want to support made in the USA vendors, if possible.May 11, 2020 at 5:10 pm #3646388Franco DarioliBPL Member
@francoLocale: Gauche, CU.
” Six Moon Designs and Gossamer Gear both shipped manufacturing overseas a few years ago, and Tarptent is now going that route‘.
The Seattle factory will still be making shelters for Tarptent.
Extra stock, particularly the DCF shelters, will come from China .
The shelters made in China have a Globaly Sourced and Imported link on their product page.
(the DCF fabric comes from USA)May 12, 2020 at 10:29 pm #3646772Mark RiesBPL Member
That’s good to know Marc, my LHG solo was made before 2012 I’ve enjoyed itMay 18, 2020 at 8:09 am #3647861
Just read this Bloomberg story about how American consumer opinion is turning against Chinese made goods, and in a big way. Of course it’s just one study, but I would imagine there’s some truth to it. Will it affect SMD, MSR and so many of the mainstream outdoor companies that get their stuff made in China? I don’t know, but the latest sentiments might just help US gear makers such as Lightheart and other cottage manufacturers.May 18, 2020 at 8:26 am #3647864Jeffs ElevenBPL Member
I used to work in a med box national retailer who sold camping gear and guns and all that for 6 years. It was hilarious to me at all the people (mostly rural types) (not a knock- I was born and raised in Mississippi- just giving background insight into the customer) And they would come in to look at gear. I would show them some gear (tents, packs, knives, binoculars, stoves, everything) and they would often say ‘is it made in China, cause I’m not buying anything made in China’. I’d say ‘yes it is, but here are some American made knives’ and they would see the price and their eyes would bulge out and they’d say ‘I’m not spending that!’ then begrudgingly walk out with a Chinese knife. It was like clockwork. Always gave me a chuckle.
All hat and no cattle. Lol.May 18, 2020 at 5:23 pm #3647957
Yea, when you’re low-income you kind of have to get over the whole “only buy American made” idea. I still insist on Spanish steel for a hunting knife though, no matter the higher cost. The Iberians have been the masters of steel for 3 millenia. As a matter of fact it’s from them that the Romans adopted the legendary gladius.
Mississippi often gets a bad rap, but many accomplished people dwell from the Magnolia State….Elvis Presley, William Faulkner, Oprah Winfrey, Tennessee Williams, John Grisham, Morgan Freeman and others.May 18, 2020 at 5:40 pm #3647960Jeffs ElevenBPL Member
Jim Henson!May 18, 2020 at 5:46 pm #3647963
From Greenville. Every state in the Eastern US has a Greenville.May 19, 2020 at 1:04 pm #3648146
The Seattle factory will still be making shelters for Tarptent.
Extra stock, particularly the DCF shelters, will come from China.”
If you’re saying that Chinese production is limited to “extra stock”, that doesn’t sound consistent with Henry’s statement on this. He writes “All the Dyneema products, as well as some other sil products, will be made at the new facility”
Since then, we see major products like the StratoSpire2 moving exclusively to China, so it’s not just “extra stock” or additional production capacity. All dyneema and much of the sil products are moving entirely to China.May 19, 2020 at 5:18 pm #3648203
> All dyneema and much of the sil products are moving entirely to China.
We have 18 models. 10 continue to be made in Seattle.
Dan, why do you care so much? Your product line is made in Vietnam, is it not? Is China somehow different than Vietnam or any other country with respect to manufacturing outside the US?May 19, 2020 at 7:27 pm #3648245
I’m a big fan of being open and upfront about information. If a tent is made in China, just say it’s made in China instead of implying the China tents are limited to “extra stock” (as Franco did) or being vague about where it is produced (e.g. “globally sourced“). That’s nothing specific to TarpTent – I call sort of thing out whenever it occurs (recent examples include Zpacks and HMG).
I don’t have a problem with producing in China. If they’re produced by the factory I expect , the quality is awesome and their human rights etc are solid.May 20, 2020 at 3:16 pm #3648379
My thoughts are that made in Vietnam or China is probably not a long game competing against 3F UL and others as they’ll continue to inch up their quality without price increases, until they find that takeover point. A significant percentage of customers will eventually figure out that you’re American in name only and decide that they might as well go with the cheapest product, since they’re all made in the same place and they’ve copied all of your designs anyway. I also understand that you need to run your businesses in a way to maximize your profits. You just don’t get to have me as a customer, but I will admit that I’m probably in the minority of those who will pay more for made in the USA, which is for the same reasons I’ll pay more at the farmer’s market for locally grown produce.
I do agree with Dan that products should have full disclosure of the country of origin. Why would anyone not want to disclose that completely to allow consumers to make informed decisions? You have to put the COO tag in the finished product anyway.May 20, 2020 at 3:31 pm #3648384
Dan, “globally sourced“ is in no way vague and if you had actually read the text under the Globally Sourced tab on the relevant product pages you would see that we absolutely do say “produced in China”. Not only that we list the fabric source – USA for Dyneema and Korea for silnylon. I don’t want to get into a heated argument here but when I look at the Drop page for the X-mids I can’t find anything about country of origin for the fabrics.
Re: “calling things out”, you do realize that you are a producer now and no longer just a forum commenter. Fine to respond to questions about your own products but taking aim at other products on public forums seems a bit unprofessional. Yes, I did that once on the initial X-mid offering on the Drop forum because I didn’t understand the design but then immediately apologized. Best to just stay out of the fray surrounding products not your own.May 20, 2020 at 3:55 pm #3648386
“A significant percentage of customers will eventually figure out that you’re American in name only and decide that they might as well go with the cheapest product, since they’re all made in the same place and they’ve copied all of your designs anyway.”
Quality varies widely within overseas production, where you can pay more for quality production at a high end factory or go with lower quality from a cheaper manufacturer. So they’re not “all made at the same place” just because they’re in the same country.
Lanshan and 3F UL are able to offer product at those prices because they are using the cheapest factories, so I don’t think they can readily “inch up quality without price increases”. I suppose they could “inch” it up, but they’re not going to get it to the level of a high end facility without running into the costs of a high end facility (premium machines, quality checks, allowing enough time to not rush etc). The quality of Lanshan and 3F UL tents is likely mediocre primarily because of the production facilities (and materials) they are willing to pay for. I don’t think skipping the design step is a big cost saver compared to a company that is able to spread those costs over a large volume of tents.
TarpTent is almost certainly using a higher end production facility, where I think there will always be a lot of people willing to pay for quality.May 20, 2020 at 4:33 pm #3648390Roger CaffinModerator
@rcaffinLocale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Lanshan and 3F UL are able to offer product at those prices because they are using the cheapest factories,
I have seen photos of the offices and factories of some of these big Chinese companies, and the buildings were BIG. I would need to be convinced that they were using outside producers rather than their own in-house facilities.
I have had stuff made for me by Chinese companies. It was done fast, accurately and cheaply.
you do realize that you are a producer now and no longer just a forum commenter.
Wise man, Henry.
CheersMay 20, 2020 at 4:35 pm #3648391
“…Best to just stay out of the fray surrounding products not your own.”
I’m try to strike a balance of only commenting on topics that are objective and important. In this case, Franco’s portrayal of the overseas production as just “extra stock” seemed too egregious not to point out (I think you would agree it’s not accurate). I should have abstained from the subjective comment on “globally sourced” being vague. I was aware that link has more details, but thought it vague in the sense that when the specs are reproduced in reviews/forums etc that gets left behind. I intend to refrain from future subjective comments.May 21, 2020 at 8:21 am #3648440
Dan, FYI, the Drop page for the X-Mid-2 has no mention anywhere of manufacturing country of origin. Since you are “a big fan of being open and upfront about information,” you will most certainly want to get that fixed.May 21, 2020 at 11:36 am #3648465Ken ThompsonBPL Member
@hereLocale: Right there
Move it to ChaffMay 22, 2020 at 8:29 am #3648591
If 3F UL Gear would start making their tents longer to accommodate the taller caucasian market, they could be a fierce competitor, at least in the market where price is a big issue. I’ve read dozens of reviews and watched countless YouTube videos on the double wall Lanshan 1 Pro for $128 and most seem to be very positive. Maybe some of the reviews are just advertiser puff pieces, but regardless, the vast majority of them are good. A 5000 mm floor and 2000 mm fly at a weight of 24 oz (tent only). But virtually all of the reviews say that if you are over 5′ 10″ don’t buy the Lanshan 1 Pro, and if you use extra thick pads even that might be stretching it.May 22, 2020 at 4:29 pm #3648658Roger CaffinModerator
@rcaffinLocale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
I suspect the problem is that the Chinese market is huge and profitable compared to the few they sell to the West (America), so why should they bother?
Yes, I am saying that the American market is too small for them to bother about it.
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