Sierra insulation in the summer

Not a Sierra expert, but I’d guess that the Sierras is no colder or wetter than Colorado and Wyoming mountains in the summer. In those places it’s hard to beat the versatility of a 100 wt fleece pullover or hoodie (or a synthetic puffy). For longer trips, trips with mediocre forecasts, or trips with uncertain weather fleece can handle the wet and cold well. If the weather’s dry on a short trip (good change of nice weather), then down is hard to beat to keep you warm around camp.

I usually split the difference and carry a light fleece pullover and a down vest for longer trips at moderate elevations, mostly at or near treeline, in Colorado or Wyoming. For higher altitude trips, more cold, wet and wind resistant clothing (and shelter) is in order.

The odd thing here on the Olympic Peninsula, is that the weather is usually very predictable in the summer, especially for short trips. I almost never take fleece in July and August on short trips with dry forecasts, just taking a down vest for a little extra warmth in camp.

You don’t say whether your intended trip will be longer than a forecast (more than 10 days)…obviously, having a good idea of the weather for your entire trip would help enormously with packing decisions.

I’ve done about a half-dozen Sierra trips now, but only two were “longer” (i.e., over 200 miles); both in summer. From my perspective, the question you need to ask yourself is, “what would I need if an unexpected storm/cold front came through?”  It only happened to me once, but what a doozy — almost 17 hours of pelting thunder/rain/hail, with only short breaks between fronts blowing through. That one storm changed the way I thought about tents forever.

On the other hand, all my other trips in the Sierra have had gorgeous weather, and although I love to camp at altitude, I’d be fine with a 20F quilt and no puffy/fleece if I’m not spending time in camp (that said, I do bring my 2oz Fauxdini, which I wear as “insulation” evenings/mornings when it’s chilly).

Another thing that really makes a difference in warmth, both in camp and while hiking, is good head insulation. A product the the EE Hoodlum is highly versatile and effective at keeping you warmer sleeping and warmer while hiking. While hiking, wearing a Hoodlum (or another synthetic puffy balaclava) under a wind shirt with a hood, with light fleece under it all keeps me warm in the 40’s with strong winds, unless there’s precipitation.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Valerie, I should have mentioned the trip length. We are planning ~6 nights but it’s possible we might swing by MTR and raid the hiker buckets and stretch it another day or two. We won’t be past the 10 day mark but we might get close to it.

Also, I hear you about shelter. A storm at Guitar Lake a couple years ago change my feelings about shelter significantly. We will be carrying an MLD Duomid XL + inner.

Lester, I like your suggestion of fleece + puffy vest. Valerie’s mention of windshirt is good too, actually I’ve been pretty warm in my MB Tachyon with a fleece before.

Oh, and interesting thought about a warm hat. That makes a lot of sense.

OK, with 6 (maybe 7) nights you should have a pretty good idea of the forecast (although a sudden storm *could* still develop, but it’s unlikely that you’d get one with a “clear” forecast). So you can easily adjust at the last minute based on updated info.  If the weather is really nice, you might even skip the vest and just do rain jacket+fleece or windshirt+fleece (and some sort of hat is always good).

> swing by MTR and raid the hiker buckets and stretch it another day or two

Ha!  I’ve threatened to do that so many times, but haven’t yet.  Still haven’t been to MTR at all; I use Mammoth and Independence/Lone Pine as my resupply locations, ‘cuz I like a little luxury and an nice shower (it *is* a vacation, after all!).

Montbell Ex Light down shirt, WM Flight vest, Mountain Hardwear Aircore beanie, which is no longer sold, but I’m sure there are other warm, lightweight head pieces out there.  I use a OR Helium 2 WPB jacket over the above on cold nights around camp, both for wind and rain protection.

Here’s what works for me when going with my wife and dog, camping between 10000′ – 12000′:

Bomber 27oz full shelter, Yama Cirri SW.

23oz (16oz down) mummy

Full length pad, Neo xLite

8oz Apex hooded puffy

Hooded wind breaker, BD Alpine Start

6oz MYOG rain poncho w pack coverage and belt

Lightweight zip neck wool under shirt, Icebreaker

Lightweight long johns

Long sleeve white hiking shirt

Long hiking pants

2 pairs of socks

2 pairs of undies

Light beanie and thin wool gloves.

This is versatile and comfy.

The tent, at 27oz, is not the lightest out there – but the shape, design and build quality have stood the test of some pretty severe weather. Plus, there’s so much room in there that we are never rubbing the walls and the dog fits fine.

Long johns, socks and puffy boosts mummy on nippy nights, making low twenties quite doable. Being inside a full shelter adds warmth and effective wind shelter, aided by another body and the dog.

With poncho, shell like windbreaker and long pants I can keep hiking thru most Sierra summer storms.

I’ve been thinking about this too for our Philmont trip this summer.  The difference might be that if it’s raining all day, we will definitely be hiking through it to keep on our itinerary.  If I was on my own trip in the Sierra we could decide to hike or not.  Living in SoCal we’re not faced with that situation often.

I also have the Ex-Light Anorak and there isn’t anything I’ve found that’s lighter and as warm.  I had an R1 Hoody, but my son as borrowed it for the foreseeable future.  Instead of replacing it, I’m thinking of going in a different direction.

I seem to recall Skurka was also big on the windshell layer.  If starting over, and based on the BPL article/Podcast I would probably go with a windshell and synthetic active jacket.  I picked up a Nano Air jacket at 50% off from Patagonia, but the XL was too big.  I will return it, but not sure I’m ready to pay full price.

In the Sierra, I only carry one or the other (fleece or down jacket), usually it’s my Montbell Plasma 1000  down jacket (< 6oz) since it weighs less than my 8oz 100 wt fleece and is warmer.  I’ve seen it snow every month in the Sierra and seen the temperature plunge into the 40’s (F) from the 70’s within 10 minutes during the day when a large thunderstorm started dumping hail, so I think carrying something warm is a good idea, even if seldom used.  Whats another 6oz after all.  Ther was a time where I accidentally brought my 40F quilt instead of my 20F one for Labor Day weekend and saw temperatures 22F one night; I was really glad I had the jacket.

As a general rule when hiking in the high elevation mountains (normally the Sierra Nevada), I have the layers necessary to deal with 20F weather just in case.  That means a lightweight pair of thermals, long pants or rain/wind pants, long sleeve shirt (permithrin treated helps with the mosquitos), rain jacket, my 1oz MLD rain mitts, warm hat, and a fleece or down jacket.  Even with the layers, I still have no trouble keeping my baseweight < 10lbs even with a bearcan (if required).

I don’t carry a fleece in the Sierra in the summer. Day temps generally do not require it.

I carry a heavier long underwear top than normal that can be used like a fleece only it much much lighter at 6 oz. Vs 11 oz.  Since I’m wearing a long-sleeve shirt and have a 2-ounce wind jacket that pretty much covers that territory that a fleece would cover, just a bit more trouble to put on than fleece.

I always bring my montbell 5.9 Oz puffy.

I might have worn the puffy a few mornings when it was chilly while getting Camp broken down. Never wore my long underwear except on top of Mount Whitney since it was 26 that morning.

Normally in cool weather I will bring a fleece in areas that have higher humidity or more rain or cold enough to need to hike in the fleas during the day.    But sierra in summer really doesn’t require it, the down puffy combined with long underwear, can replace a fleece for the most part

For June-September Sierra, just a Montbell Ex-Light puffy and a rain jacket, light beanie. For shoulder season late September-early October I add light gloves, insulated vest, heavier beanie. Into October or if the forecasts are for real cold I add thermals, and middle October onwards I add down pants (for sleep comfort mostly).

Done about 35 nights in the Sierra, and also don’t carry a fleece. I wear an OR Echo II long-sleeve during the day and to sleep in and carry the same shirt in short-sleeve to wear if it’s really warm at night or, more likely, to wear both — it’s surprising how much warmth that thin Echo material can add as an extra layer. Rain poncho and windshirt for during the day if needed. Light down puffy for in camp, which becomes part of my pillow system or, if needed (once so far), cold enough to wear inside my 30F EE quilt. A lightweight merino blend bottom baselayer and Black Rock down beanie round out the sleep system. Recently added GFG down booties for keeping feet extra-warm, which I found can keep my entire legs warm enough inside the baselayer that I don’t need lightweight down pants. EDIT: pad is a standard Xlite.

For me:

The puffy is for comfort.  The fleece is necessary.  Waterproof pants are important for me though — in gnarly storms I find I loose too much heat via wet legs without rain pants.

I bring a Montbell Ex light jacket, wool beanie, Patagonia wind jacket, Zpacks Rain Jacket, rain skirt , wool gloves, and shirt.  Never have gotten cold or chilly, and I’ve seen temps down into the 20s, and snow on top of Mt Whitney in the middle of August.  99% of the time I”m either wearing just my shirt or shirt with rain jacket during thunder storms.  As a back up I still have my quilt I can wrap around me, but I’ve never had to resort to wearing it.

Matt, are you concerned with getting cold during the day or night, getting wet,  or concerned about the worst case scenario?

I spend more time in the Rockies than the Sierras, but when I am in the high Sierra in summer, I use a light puffy (MB UL Down Inner), windshirt, and then a 100wt fleece hat/gloves.

The Sierra usually has pretty good and predictable weather, but it can get nasty from time time. If you don’t carry any sort of insulation for camp, just be prepared to jump in your bag or quilt if you are cold.

“…are you concerned with getting cold during the day or night, getting wet,  or concerned about the worst case scenario?”

Brad, That’s a good question. My answer:

I cannot remember the last time I was cold during the day and that includes hiking in the rain/snow at just above freezing (although it was at 7500’ in trees).

I’m not worried about getting wet.

I suppose I am concerned about worst case scenarios and overall weight.

I like the kit you describe but I’m thinking it might make more sense to bring the fleece and leave the puffy at home. In a theoretical worst case it’s hard for me to imagine fleece + rain jacket would not be adequate while hiking. Once I’m able to pitch our mid then I can get into my quilt and get some real warmth happening.

A fleece is definitely a versatile layer as you could hike it, though like you I personally have never been in a situation in 15 years of backpacking run across a situation where I needed a fleece while hiking with a pack on, though I may run hotter this much especially when working hard.

That’s true for me as well. I hike and sleep warm. The only time I ever get cold is sitting around camp (which I don’t do often).