Seek Outside – $45 lumbar pad?

“I’m just perplexed how Seek Outside can ask $45 for a lumbar accessory. Zpacks offers a cuban lumbar pad for $15.”

The Zpacks Arc Haul has a load capacity of 35lbs.  Depending on torso length and frame size, the Seek Outside Divide has a load capacity ranging from 40 to 100 lbs.  If it makes packing out 50+ lbs of elk less painful, to me, that would be $45 well spent.

The market will tell them soon enough if they priced it too high but seeing that they attract customers who hunt and other folks who have to schlep heavy loads through the mountains, my guess is that they’ve priced it right.

Edit to add: Probably seems steep from a BPL perspective because we’re comparing to Zpacks and ULA, but look at Kifaru’s or Kuiu’s prices when you combine the bag and frame.

https://store.kifaru.net/packs-c3.aspx

http://www.kuiu.com/hunting-backpacks-packs/

Plus $7.15 shipping :(

Well they gotta pay Dave

Nick D, if the front of your hips are going numb……then it sounds like you are likely over tightening it.  The best thing that I have found about the Seek Outside Packs is that because of the wrap around belt I don’t have to over tighten the belt, since they don’t slip as easily as other belts on my bony small hipped body. Therefore,  before trying the lumbar pad, I’d play more around with the fit and where you are tightening the belt on your body.  With these wrap around belts, you should not have to pull them too tight.  I’m no expert with pack fit or the Seek Outside packs, so I’d recommend seeking advice on the Seek Outside Forum and Kevin (from Seek Outside) will likely respond along with other knowledgeable users.  Taking a picture wearing it would also allow people to more easily be helpful.

Ken, Dave does not work for them anymore, Home .

? Whoops

My first reaction was that the price seems a bit steep for what it is… I haven’t decided whether to buy it or not (even though it’s recommended for women, according to the accompanying video).

I’ve got enough to ponder with plans to make myself a new packbag for my Divide.

Slightly off-topic, I’m glad they aren’t using those horrible bachelor buckles any more.  Ugh, indeed those were “not the marrying kind”, IMHO!

“Slightly off-topic, I’m glad they aren’t using those horrible bachelor buckles any more.  Ugh, indeed those were “not the marrying kind”, IMHO!”

Interesting!  I’ve never used them but when I saw them, I thought that they looked pretty slick.  What was the issue with them?

As far as the main belt goes, I see they’ve changed its design to two buckles.  That may be a good thing but I always intended to buy one of their packs with the Cobra buckle.  I use one at work and think it’s da bomb.  I was just looking at it on their website and it looks like they use a plastic one (and out of stock) where the one I have is metal.

In Kuiu’s defence their hipbelt pockets are only $10 each and they include a supplemental lumbar pad in with the pack frame. They aren’t cheap but Kifaru, Stone Glacier, and Mystery Ranch all significantly outpace Seek Outside and Kuiu in both price and heaviness. I know those three aren’t exactly what people around here would use on a standard trip but it amazes me how much they cost and how much they weigh. We’ll see if I regret my decision to go Kuiu this fall.

Ian — the reason those bachelor buckles were a pain in the discopants is that, as soon as the tension on the strap is eased, they unhook.  So every time you loosen your compression straps to unpack/pack something, the damn*d strap is left dangling, and you have to re-hook it.  Sometimes you don’t see the loose straps and you put on your pack and start hiking, then the straps start swinging when you walk, and you have to take off the pack and hook them up again.

Over the course of 250 miles, that got to be a royal pain in MY discopants!  I’m sure they’re great for the right purpose (and gawd knows they’re unbreakable), but compression straps was not the “right purpose”.  Oh, and they’re much heavier than they need to be.

Haven’t noticed the new belt buckle config.  Last year’s design worked purty-good for me…

“…bachelor buckles were a pain in the discopants”

Badum ching!  I LOL’d for reals.

Here’s their recent video on the two buckle system.  I’m enamored with the SO Divide 4500 but the way money trickles down to my backpacking fund, something like new sewn through heat molded skates for roller derby complete with bearing and wheels for one floor type and another set of wheels for another floor type, I’m reminded that I have a nice quiver of packs and currently don’t put myself in a position all that often when I need a pack that can handle the heavier loads.  I’m not complaining but someday this pack will be mine.

“We’ll see if I regret my decision to go Kuiu this fall.”

Some thread drift.  The little I know about them is from reputation only, which seems to be favorable.  I’ve never seen any of their gear or clothing IRL.  What are your thoughts on the pack?

My larger point is that not everyone is arriving on Seek Outside’s website from the UL world and are looking at this from a hunter’s perspective and are using Kuiu, Kifaru, et al for comparison.

When it comes to hauling heavy loads, I’ve softened my approach on backpack weight and am convinced that comfort is king.  If a pack like a McHale or whatever adds a pound or two but is more comfortable when hauling a >50lb load, for me, it’s worth the weight penalty.

That’s quite a change on the SO hipbelt!  But I think I’ll stick with the “classic” version, esp. when the newbie would be another $69 + shipping…

Not that I’m trying to sabotage your recreational goods budget, but those SO packs carry like buttah!  So smooooooth.  The only thing that carries better is a mule!

I’ve softened my approach on backpack weight and am convinced that comfort is king.

Honestly, I’ve always been a wimp who needs her princess stuff out on the trail (big, fluffy quilt/bag; wide, thick “trail bed”; a nice big tent-palace to get away from the bugs/rain…etc.) — and I carry it all with no complaints, and usually do 2-3 mph in Sierras-type terrain (base weight 15-17lbs).  Sometimes I even cruise past gram weenies, without even breathing hard (they HATE that).  If I had to be uncomfortable every night, I wouldn’t sleep, and I’d never last out there.  OTOH, I don’t feel very hungry/thirsty when I’m backpacking, so I can carry less food/water, making my total pack weight manageable.

“the reason those bachelor buckles were a pain in the discopants is that, as soon as the tension on the strap is eased, they unhook.”

Hence why they’re called ‘bachelor’ buckles. Any tension and I’m outta there as soon as it eases….

“Hence why they’re called ‘bachelor’ buckles. Any tension and I’m outta there as soon as it eases….”

Versus the ‘married guy buckles’ where you spend one out of every two hours on the trail talking to them to figure out what’s for dinner and what you need to pick up from the grocery store on the way home and if you used the last of the powdered au jus when you made the Italian beef last week only to arrive at your campsite and discover that you quite literally have 18 packets of au jus because you always forget you have it and buy it every single time you go to the grocery store and could make an au jus fort if the need ever presented itself.

I have to say the BB buckle chatter is funny.

Most of these updates are a bit of weight savings (about 2 ounces most packs) and improving fit for some people. If it works great currently by all means keep using it as is. Most are very subtle improvements except the lumbar pad can be a large fit improvement for some people we traditionally didn’t fit that well.

The Dual Buckle Belt does have a larger fit range, so fewer people should be on the cusp of sizes or need to change if they loose weight over a long trip. In regards to hip pain, it is an improvement since you can change up an down tension. True story, last fall, I had hip pain on one side, I don’t think it was pack related but more a bad night sleep rolled off pad on rocky terrain sort of related. I tried several of our belts hoping to minimize it .. and the dual buckle was the best for me (and time). Just and FYI

We did a fair amount of testing on a pretty broad user base. Several people were loaded close to 200 lbs with excellent belt integrity with the combination of dual and lumbar pad.

I would think of the lumbar pad as some people need it, some don’t need it but it is an improvement in belt function, some don’t need it all. For me, it helps me at the upper end a bit, but mostly it helps me wear the load a little higher and the captured belt helps keep the belt cleaner. For me, before, the belt worked really well, but if I tried to wear it higher and tighter, I could loose some contact on heavier loads. Now I maintain excellent contact no matter where I wear it. For me, it’s really more of a belt helper than traditional “lumbar pad” .

I don’t disagree on it seems a little steep price wise, but those were the numbers we were essentially given once they were crunched. We try to keep things as fair as possible to our customers, but we also . do not sacrifice quality, performance or service trying to race to the bottom.

Thanks

LOL Ken.  In fairness Zpacks goes with simple designs to cut costs, and isn’t exactly renowned for detailed oriented stitching.

Regarding gatekeepers; they appear to be the same thing Kuiu introduced several years ago.  If so I’d encourage folks to be gentle with them, I’ve snapped the nose off several during what I’d consider normal use with heavier (40+ pound) loads.

OMG — Doug & Ian:  thanks for my daily guffaw!  Who knew a discussion of attachment hardware would be so much fun?

WOuld one of you guys happen to know if the divide packbag fits on the unaweep frame?

It does. The Divide works best on the 24″ frame (no extensions).

Thanks brad.