Relocating

[HkNewman]

Aberdeen … pretty run down

It’s pretty rural on a map  too, but rural does not mean crime free in the US.  Per capita many rural communities may be unsafer than bigger ones, .. just the news market doesn’t cover it.

Speaking of which, shoddy construction, availability of repair work, and remodeling ease doesn’t get a lot of news coverage either.  Some of the places I looked at including former copper mining/now artsy picturesque Bisbee AZ came with a warning.   Good repair help there and other small towns often has a waiting list for the older homes – short history: many Victorian homes from the late 1800s to Levittown type homes of the 1940s-50s.  One of the main bars used to be an actual stock exchange. The copper ore became too poor to mine economically so in the ‘60s many left but woke hippies (and others) took advantage of the then inexpensive San Francisco style real estate.  It’s pretty old though so there’s a lot of repair or just replacing the “guts” of these old structures .. pretty much making it “new”.

Speaking of new, looking somewhat nearby I also got a (construction) warning by a town “welcoming committee” acquaintance of mine.  She said really nice things about the town, but then found out the builders either built some “lemon” homes or built homes on a “lemon” of a lot (re: watch for new 100 year flood plains).  We’re taking 6” or so of mud getting into the first floor, busted fixtures, etc..

[Bonzo]

Did some more research on the Aberdeen area; definitely a mix of pros and cons…and semi-pros, and ex-cons.  The crime rates bother me, although it seems that nearby areas aren’t as impacted.

Also, to those who suggested we take a better look at Oregon…thank you!  Turns out there are some seriously cool places there (that aren’t Bend, amazingly) and some of the real estate is almost affordable.  Recreation activities look to be in close proximity, and a lot of our boxes are being ticked by what we’re finding.  People in my end of the world – the Deep(ly devout) South – continually caution us about “California Politics” being exported into Oregon, as some here have indicated.  For those that are or have been Oregonians – Oregonish?  Oregonites?  Oregami?  Oreganos? – or have been in the area extensively: can you share more about the places you’ve seen?

[Mark Verber]

You initial criteria (until I saw your wanting out of the area) would have been western NC / eastern TN.

There are numerous locations in CA would be a good match except for the cost. If you could be happy with a minimalist home, maybe going off grid, there are still places you could buy land at a very reasonable price and still be within 90 minutes of an urban area that has the services you mentioned.

Have you considered out of the US?

As to the nomadic existence… with dog and bunny make that be challenging. A near cousin would be to try several locations, staying in each for a few months to determine what you think of the area. AirBNB can work but can be pricy. We have sometimes found good deals on craigslist for short term leases (3-months).

[Bonzo]

You initial criteria (until I saw your wanting out of the area) would have been western NC / eastern TN.

There just isn’t much social tolerance, here, outside of the city limits.  Sure, in the metropolitan areas you’re always going to be able to find some people that have their heads in the 21st century, but once you get into the small towns…forget it.  Rural areas have always been surprisingly live-and-let-live in our specific part of the world, but that’s not always the case; some of them are downright dangerous unless you have the right skin tone and demeanor.

Have you considered out of the US?

You would be surprised at what $100K will buy you in the south of France.

Yes, we have; work would be the main issue.  My partner would have to find a new job, as would I – and after the past four days at my existing job, that’s going to be very soon – and we would have to work around residency requirements, if any exist.  Europe definitely poses that problem; I haven’t yet looked into much of the rest of the world.

As to the nomadic existence… with dog and bunny make that be challenging. A near cousin would be to try several locations, staying in each for a few months to determine what you think of the area. AirBNB can work but can be pricy. We have sometimes found good deals on craigslist for short term leases (3-months).

Dog is easy; bunny is difficult.  Good dog/cat vets are everywhere; good bunny vets – or any exotic animal – are hard to find…but you’re right on the money for our current plans.  We’re already cutting down all of our extra stuff; there have been several giveaways this week, and that’ll continue.

And our closing date on the property has semi-finalized: sometime between August 11th and 18th…so even if we use the 90-day lease-back that we’ve been offered by the buyer, we’re still out of the place by November 15th at the latest.

Also, we continue to research Oregon; Bend really does look like an amazing city, but the real estate prices are definitely up there.  I’m wondering if we couldn’t go about twenty or thirty minutes west, towards the hills, and find a place there.

[Monte Masterson]

Actually the best kept secret in the Northeast is Portland, Maine. Metro population is about a half million and it’s only 110 miles to Boston. Being on the coast the temperatures are of coarse moderated a lot more than say Burlington, VT, especially in the winter. Crime rates are extremely low and economy is pretty good. Politically Maine is more of a purple state and for a true moderate like myself that would be more attractive. I certainly don’t like being around rednecks, but I think you have to ask yourself if the hyper wokeness of far-left radicals is something that you’d be comfortable with as well.

The gloom factor needs to be considered too. It’s a proven fact that number of cloudy days in a year effects one’s psychological wellbeing. Western Oregon south of Eugene isn’t bad, however heading northward, especially into western Washington, you can see on the map below that the hours of sunshine greatly decreases. Also consider southeast New Hampshire. Way sunnier than Burlington and warmer winter temps. It also has a very strong economy.

 

[Bonzo]

Monte, what a great map that is!  Thank you for posting that…and yeah, Portland, Maine looks like it’s actually not-bad…at least, for a city.  This is much appreciated!

[AK Granola]

Alaska’s conservatives used to be live-and-let-live libertarian types. Now the folks moving in for the last few years have been big-government tell you how to live conservatives. I’d love to see more progressive people move here and flip us purple or blue. I have several LGBT family members and plenty of friends in those categories, and I’ll fight to keep abortion legal here with all my might. Fight not flee. I’m going to post a recent trip report – that might sway you!

[Steve S]

I live in Portland, Oregon. I’ll try to address some of your concerns, interests and misconceptions.

First, snow arrives with altitude. So some roads are effectively ski routes in winter, and the high country is truly remote much of the year. Only a few roads cross the Cascades — particularly in winter. Highway 242 was opened this weekend — by plow.

Second, Oregon divides politically, with most of the east side (of the Cascades) and the region south of Eugene being Republican. Portland and Eugene are mostly Democratic. College towns are liberal. Ashland, in the south is an artsy place in the midst of a “conservative” region. The Enterprise/Joseph area on the North side of the Wallowas is beautiful oasis, but too remote for easy connections elsewhere.

Third, on some of the clearest winter days in Portland in winter there is a strong wind down the Columbia River from the east side, where the high pressure sits, and a stratus cloud deck over the entire side. The west side of the Cascades has a maritime-influenced climate, whereas the east side has a continental climate with greater temperature extremes. However, most of the east side is high, called the “high desert” for a reason, so feels warmer at a given temperature and wind speed than you east-coasters might expect.

Travel around the state using hostels while trying to find coffee shops and bookstores. A place you’d like probably has both.

HTH

 

[Bonzo]

Steve – thank you!  I’ll start looking through the areas that you mentioned; we haven’t really looked into either the southern end of Oregon, or the northeast.  I was wondering what the climate in the south was like in the last few years, after all of the nearby fires.

Also, something that hasn’t been really discussed yet: crime rates.  We’ve been seeing that certain areas definitely look safer, and others look a bit more…well, sketchy.  Oregon in particular raised a few flags over the recent homeless/drug issues that have made the news…but it’s so hard to tell if what’s seen in the media is accurate at all.  I mean, according to what we saw on the east coast, Steve should have been burned alive last year when the entirety of Portland was razed to the foundations during the city-wide riots… 😉

[Larry S]

Steve S. is generally correct about Oregon. However, there are places in Oregon with the amenities you want that don’t cost a fortune for housing, are close to summer and winter recreation, and fall in the undiscovered category. One example is Baker City in eastern Oregon. The local politics may be more purple than you want, and the nearest metro area, Boise, is more like two hours away on the freeway. But you can’t beat it for local charm and outdoor recreation without traffic jams. As Steve S. suggests, you might want to poke around in the nooks and crannies of Oregon rather than focussing on the same places everyone is already looking at.

[Steve S]

Each hikes his/her own hike. Tastes differ. The east-west climate divide at the Cascade Crest is sharp, if not obvious when one tries to pin it down. The first time I crossed the Cascades I said to myself, “what happened?”, although nothing much seemed to have happened.

I checked just north of the Mt. Jefferson Wilderness Area after a major fire had occurred where its extent was. I had been hiking nearby when the thunder storm came through that had ignited the fire. The fire had burned through the soil on the east side where I checked, torching all the trees, but had done nothing on the west side, where the trees remained green. A shocking contrast.

The smells differ by area, biasing the way I perceive beauty on a deep level. I can only speak for myself here, for I discovered this by accident. My tastes lean toward the west side and the Douglas Fir old growth forests.

I’ve spent time in Baker but it would not do for me. Over there I would look at La Grande and, for a really small town, North Powder just south.  Beware that commuting to a major city for work will be very time-consuming, particularly in winter. Anchorage might be faster.

[Larry S]

I’ve lived in eastern Oregon for decades, not that far from Baker City and La Grande. I was going to add La Grande as a recommendation as well, but it is  2  1/2 hours from Boise and requires crossing a frequently snowy mountain pass in the winter to get there. Otherwise it is great.

[Bonzo]

…rather than focusing on the same places everyone is already looking at.

That is an excellent perspective, and an equally excellent suggestion; I think I’ve had that notion in my mind for awhile, but haven’t been able to clearly envision it or state it…so, thank you.

We’ll definitely take a look in the areas mentioned – both Baker and La Grande look wonderful – and as of right now, we’re thinking about doing some one- to two-week trips in each state just to get a feel for the area…but that’s a LOT of travel expense, so we’re trying to home in on the likeliest areas ahead of time, in order to best use our time and resources.

Regarding the work commute/proximity: with my partner’s job being remote, we don’t have to worry on that front.  As long as we can get to even a regional airport offering service to major areas, we’re probably in the clear…and I’m undecided on what I’ll be doing.  We have some savings, so I’ve seriously thought about taking a bit of time to just revaluate my priorities and needs, and then trying something new.  I’ve heavily considered EMT work – I would be a WEMT, actually, now that I think of it – but I’m not sure that with my facial hair, they would even let me in the program…and I’ve taken a long time to cultivate it, so I’m not hip on losing it. 🙃

[Bonzo]

Well, there’s an update: I put in my advance notice at my job yesterday, which was met with serious absolutely no concern on the part of everyone present, due to my position being absolutely critical to the continuation of all production and work at my present company easily replaceable.

In all seriousness: I’m the only person at my company that can do this particular job – no backup, no redundancy, no anyone else at all – which uses some very specific and archaic software; so archaic, in fact, that it no longer has developer support and it’s considered an oddball program even within its own industry.  Translation: if I’m not present and working, production and work literally stop.  Not “slow down” and not “get more difficult” but actually stop.  Despite this – and this is the funny part of the story – my notice was treated with a minimum of concern by the company owner and the operations manager (otherwise known as “the owner’s brother” because nepotism).  I’m not kidding; they didn’t even make the least effort to try and keep me here.  I explained that I needed to move on to other opportunities due to the lack of advancement potential (there’s literally nowhere for me to go, here, because the only person that can be considered my manager is the company owner), the lack of skills improvement, the stagnation inherent to the position, and our desire for a change of scene, and all they heard was ‘Oh, you guys want to move?  Well, okay, guess you gotta do that” and that was it.  No offers, no “Let’s talk about this”…nothing.  They even said that they’d been trying to hire a backup for me for two years and haven’t been able to do it, but despite that, there’s evidently there’s so little concern for replacing me that they’re not going to bother to try and keep me.  I was floored; I know they treat everyone as disposable, here, but this took my awareness to a new level.  Just shows that if I’m going to stay in manufacturing and design, I need to stay in it somewhere else entirely…and that’s a rather good feeling, now that it’s come to pass.

Anyone know of an up-and-coming gear manufacturer that needs someone to draw for them? ;)

[Ray J]

Bonzo, Best of luck.  Sounds like you really do need to move on, if you wish to not just stay in the same place work/experience wise the rest of your career.  I guess you or they are not open to you working remote for them?

My last 14 years was with a major consumer product company.  For the first 5 years, I was a contractor.  I did my best and tried two or three times a year to get my direct manager interested in converting me to employee.  After a few years I decided to look around town.  But there was like ONE job in the few years I causally looked that WASN’T at one of the sweat shops.  After 5 years, THEY decided to covert me (Finally) along with about 5 others in my team.  Funny thing, 5 years later the big managers OUTSOURCED and OFF SHORED about 249 of my close personal friends (Plus me).  3.5 years later, the same managers decide for the 29 in my group (actually, the out source company had laid off ALL the women plus some had quit so we were down to 18 doing the work load) that THEY didn’t like the company THEY PICKED!  Yep, outsourced a second time.  The next company was “Managed Services” and did us all a favor by hiring…….7 of the 18.   I was one but was laid off then some 8 months later but I was a burnout by then, we were set retirement wise and I retired at 58.  Funny but it’s been four years now and NOW they have contacted several of us about coming back to the contract.  None of us will.  They don’t care one bit about the people, the business knowledge we possessed.

I am surprised that a small family run business isn’t more attuned to the job you have.

[Bonzo]

I am surprised that a small family run business isn’t more attuned to the job you have.

If you’re not part of the family, you’re disposable; to them, this place is basically an ATM.

[Monte Masterson]

And yet companies will say “why can’t we find any help?”  lol!

The worker is in a much better position now than even just a few years ago. Oppressive management practices are really coming back to bite company owners in the behind. The Great Resignation has been underway for awhile and the baby bust along with lower legal immigrant numbers has shrunk the labor pool, whereas unemployment is very low.

Don’t sweat em. To quote a line from the Eagles song Already Gone: “often times we live our lives in chains when we never even know we have the key.”

Or as Johnny Paycheck sings: “take this job and shove it”.

[Brad W]

My brother lives 20 miles west of Olympia. He moved from SoCal and has been there 4 years-loves it. Rain-80+ inches a year.  Small town vibe-people were very nice to him and me when I visit. Plenty of hiking and backpacking opportunities off the forest roads. Not too much work in town, but if you are working remote that’s a plus. He’s never had issue with crime.

FWIW he considered Aberdeen at first but luckily the realtor said you don’t want live here. Too methy.

[Bonzo]

So, this escalated quickly: less than 48 hours after I put in my notice, my employer has decided to hire the first person that responded to the (badly-worded) ad that was posted.  I’m not embellishing that statement, either; exactly one interview was conducted, and they hired that guy on the spot.  He has some experience in the past (ten years ago) with a similar software, but nothing current and nothing with this platform, and he hasn’t worked in this kind of manufacturing environment before…so, unfortunately for him, his hiring wasn’t about capability so much as a response to panic on the part of my employer.  I feel bad for the guy, to be honest.

Additionally, they’re only going to hire this one person, and his hiring means that as I suspected, there won’t be any effort made to keep me here; that shows me exactly how much this small, family-run business values someone that’s put eight years of their life into it.  I’m trying and failing to find a recipe that more effectively creates a disenfranchised and bitter employee…and beyond that, I’m trying to understand how they think that leaving me in charge of training this person is a good idea.  I mean, at this point, I have exactly zero reason beyond a set of personal morals to do anything to help this company or its employees; whenever I leave, they’ll be back in exactly the same situation they are now – one person doing the job, with no backup and no redundancy – albeit with none of the experience and familiarity that I bring to the table.  But, none of that matters as long as the family wallets are still full, I suppose.

If I ever needed validation and a reason to move on, this is most certainly it.  It’s what I expected, but it’s still ponderous and downright depressing.  I’ll definitely be giving myself some extra time outside to clear my mind, in the coming days.

Brad – thanks so much for that little tidbit!  That’s actually right on top of where we were considering, in that area.  Eighty annual inches is a lot of rain, but to be honest, I don’t mind the precipitation; it’s better to get soaked outside than to get hosed sitting in an office chair.

[AK Granola]

Sorry to hear about your work woes. All I can say is, take the high road so that you can always say you did the right thing. You’ll walk away taller and find better things around the corner. I really believe that, having had a number of terrible supervisors and never let down my effort.

I work for a state institution, but unfortunately, it doesn’t always treat employees the way I think it should. We do have some benefits private employers don’t always offer, like flexible hours, ample vacation days, decent health benefits. But the incredibly low pay doesn’t help morale one whit. I try to boost my reports simply by telling them how much I appreciate them, as much as I can. It probably rings hollow when it isn’t followed by raises. But it’s all I can do. I don’t blame people for leaving, and they always feel guilty about telling me. I sincerely tell them I wish them well.

Get outside!

[Ray J]

When my old company decided to outsource and offshore, large groups were told to train our replacements.  Since I was outsourced, it was more like “Train these people so they can assist you” (yeah, sure, they are going to assist….).  One group laid off some years before I was, the workers were called to an emergency all-hands meeting.  The 8 or 10 of them were introduced to the 20 people who were getting their jobs.  The 20 were excused and the 8 or 10 were told they had 90 days, a tight schedule to train them up IF THEY EXPECTED ANY SEVERANCE.  Otherwise?  They told them their resignations would be processed!  So 90 days training (LOL) three people to replace you, then get severance.  They did it as most of them were 10+ years with the company so severance was like 9 to 12 MONTHS pay. 6 months later, half the new people had failed or moved on and stuff started falling apart.  Did management wake up?  NO!  MORE layoffs!

 

Bonzo, it is a panic move and they are showing that as long as a warm body MIGHT be able to keep their system running…..well that means they don’t have to spend any money!

 

It always reminds me of a few lines from Casino.  “It’s the dollars.  Always the dollars”

[Steve S]

Bonzo, are they offering you  any form of bonus on leaving? If not, why not move your separation date forward to today, and offer to train your replacement while acting as a consultant at a suitable rate on your schedule? This company is not likely to give you a worthwhile recommendation when you seek employment elsewhere, so they have no stick to dangle; while accepting your offer will say much about your worth to them. They may take the offer after a couple of days of the new hire’s struggles.

[Dan]

I’m not sure I understand the bitterness. You resigned, giving a laundry list of reasons that you dislike the company. Apparently they were ready to let you go, and in their place, I’m not sure I would have tried to retain such an unhappy employee either. It sounds like it was not a good fit. In your place, I would be a professional, train my replacement, and move on.

[Bonzo]

Thanks for the consolation, all; it’s difficult, having put eight years into this job, only to see the environment constantly degrade, and for things to worsen.  We’ve lost benefits, compensations haven’t increased in a long time, and we’ve increasingly been treated as replaceable, untrustworthy elements…so that’s where my bitterness comes from, Dan.  This isn’t a job that I picked up a year ago, and things haven’t always been such a bad fit…but I’ve done my best to be a professional about it.  I hope you’ll excuse my venting about it, here; it’s hard to sink so much of yourself into anything, only to realize that the effort meant vastly more to you than it did to the people it benefitted.

Also, Steve, there’s been no mention of consultation or contract work.  I think they’re expecting that I can train the new person in a few weeks, and then everything will be running as normal.  However, my partner and the vast majority of my colleagues are suggesting that I do exactly what you mentioned; I think it’s worth considering.

[Steve S]

Bonzo, you’ll probably never be in a better bargaining position, even if your current employer doesn’t want to recognize it. And since, from what you have said, they have been pushing you and other employees to see how far they could get without pushback, they will respect you more for pushing back than if you do not. Little to lose; much to gain.

 

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