Relocating

[AK Granola]

Some people love Portland still. I have one former retired colleague who had moved there, and then recenly moved out when things started to go bad downtown. His wife would repeatedly get harassed on her daily walks, etc. He fought off attackers on two occasions. Just not nice, not the way it was when they moved there. They’re rich so they fled to Santa Fe. OTOH a friend of my son’s, 20 and young and hip, doesn’t even notice stuff like that. She uses public transport, hangs out downtown, and loves living there. She loves the night life, and doesn’t worry about safety. She’s street smart. The young adjust to what they have.

Our American society is falling apart, everywhere. If one place is doing well now, it might not be tomorrow. We can easily trace the source to moving working class jobs overseas, increased mechanization of low level jobs, and eliminating any possibility or hope for people without college or skills, as well as closing up mental health facilities (Thanks Reagan). That move happened with the encouragement of both political parties; it helped the stock market. Cheaper labor and bigger profits, and lots of cheap shit to buy. Unless we collectively decide that we need to have futures for everyone, we will continue to see things decline. Everywhere. Coming soon to a city near you.

I have a brother in Santa Rosa. Right now they are dealing with “sideshows.” I’d never heard of it! Check YouTube. The people doing these are having fun, and they don’t give one F about middle and upper class people who are upset by it. Part of that attitude is that they are completely disenfranchised; there is nowhere in Santa Rosa someone can live who earns minimum wage. Nowhere. There is no hope of ever saving money or having a brighter future. One trip to the hospital and you’re broke for life. Your house burns down and you’re done. If we don’t all care about this, and do something about it, it will be lawlessness and police brutality. Not nice to live in for anyone. The rich will flee, but the problems will follow. We either care for each other and build community or we continue “every man for himself.”

Wherever you live, you have to participate. You have to get involved and make it work. I learned those lessons from my parents, (one Democrat and one Republican), who volunteered, advocated for community goods like schools, libraries, sidewalks (can you believe that some people actively hate and fight the building of sidewalks?!), parks, zoning, wild lands, trails. Make your community worth living in so that everyone can get to enjoy it and take part.

I am so amazed and impressed by what my parents’ advocacy (and their friends) accomplished in that small town. People use all those things today – a healthy downtown, local shops, sidewalks, parks, wild areas, trails – without even knowing how they got there, that there was once a risk the town would be a sprawling soulless mess like everywhere else. My parents had to fight off bad development ideas, WalMart, highways planned through the main part of town, through the woodlands, they had to fight hard against Pottersville and plenty of Mr Potters. Community advocates were called “anti progress.”

Working class folks are still doing ok in that town, with several local manufacturing plants, and lots of farm work, a diversified economy. There are lots of local supports, like a clothes closet, food support, and cheap housing. I grew up in a working-to-middle class neighborhood. There were no fences or gates. Children played everywhere. We didn’t have a lot of crap, but life was pretty nice. We never locked doors. I don’t imagine anywhere will ever be like that again. Because we don’t want it to be.

Instead, the rich live in gated communities, have police harass and imprison the homeless and drug addicted, and live a life in prison – you’re on one side of the fence or the other, but you’re still fenced in. The rich get richer and the poor have nothing. What do you expect them to do? Pull themselves up by their bootstraps. Load of horseshit.

Don’t kiss any politician’s shoes. Think for yourself. Think what you can do, wherever you move to, to make things better. Rant over.

 

[HkNewman]

Another thought is avoiding (for now) places which have a housing shortage.  Many builders left the field after the 07-08 real estate meltdown, and construction has not kept up with demand in certain locales [embedded list enclosed]  ..

https://www.npr.org/2022/07/14/1109345201/theres-a-massive-housing-shortage-across-the-u-s-heres-how-bad-it-is-where-you-l

SoCal certainly but it’s interesting that Ventura county has more of a shortage than Los Angeles/San Berdoo area.  There’s a major Navy construction base (“SeaBee”) in Ventura Co so it’s not lack of tradespeople (lots of veterans with those skills I’d imagine).   I’d try to find out if there’s an expanded list, though economic conditions may change the situation.

There’s the surroundings to think about as well.  Will hiking or other outdoor activities be affected in the next decades before being carted off to the old person’s home?  There’s the terrestrial component (burns, water sources etc), but also the potential for wildfire smoke.  Then there’s being close to an airport for distant trips (if desired).  Many bigger airports even have mass transit coming close or even inside the building like DFW or ..

Portland

I thought the inner city  pretty safe when visiting during the day (a number of outdoor retailers) but read at night there’s fights between rival groups of young people.  Of course I don’t go out to the hip-hop club as much as I try to do stretching as not to throw out a hip ..

Just to add visiting for a few weeks and walking at dawn to a coffee shop is less exposure to local conditions than living there daily for a few years.  Same can be said elsewhere of course (many small towns luring retirees in the SW see many leave in a few years due to boredom fwiw)

 

[Steve S]

In the last few years fires have destroyed houses in many areas of the Northwest. Trailers seem to have been particularly vulnerable. So, the housing shortage reflects lost housing units; a relative decrease in the number of lowest cost units; and the movement of survivors to places where they can get services — even if they are suddenly living in tents and vehicles.

So the availability of rentals is likely to be patchy, apart from being poor where good jobs are most readily available or where remote workers prefer relocating.

 

[Monte Masterson]

Sorry if it seemed as if I was picking on Portland. Great city in many ways. The PNW was the area Bonzo was talking about so that’s why I mentioned it.

Actually my hometown of Louisville has had a much higher spike in violent crime and property crimes than PDX. Jefferson County’s population is around 1 million and it saw 173 murders last year, shattering all previous records. Car jackings have quadrupled and multiple shootings are a daily occurrence. After the Breonna Taylor incident and then George Floyd the downtown area of Louisville was gutted and destroyed with what the media described as “mostly peaceful protests”.

I support the Democrats on many issues, but there’s no denying the fact that liberal Democrat run cities are seeing a far higher explosion in crime rates. Take mayor Fisher of Louisville for example, he’s just like mayor Wheeler in that he always panders to the radical left elements who want no bail for violent felons and a revolving door with a mere slap on the wrist as punishment. Mayor Fisher throws the police (LMPD) under the bus every time so now they don’t even pull anyone over unless they absolutely have to because they’re afraid they’ll be accused of profiling.

Democrats are simply weak on crime and border security, no way around it. Everyone is talking about how inflation is going to be the main thing that will hurt Democrats in November, but I think the first 2 things I mentioned will hurt them almost as much. People are fleeing a lot of liberal cities because of the exploding crime rates and that’s not just some far right talking point, it’s the truth.  Nevertheless, Dems may not take quite the beating that’s predicted this November because of a gaining popularity on gun control, Roe vs Wade, and the January 6 Trump fiasco which I think all can help them. They have to get tougher on crime though.

[Dan]

… there’s no denying the fact that liberal Democrat run cities are seeing a far higher explosion in crime rates.

Compared to what? There are virtually no substantial US cities with Republican mayors. Apparently, the largest city with a Republican mayor is Jacksonville, FL, which has a fairly similar per-capita violent crime rate as Louisville or Portland in the latest data I could find. I sense that this is just something one hears repeatedly in certain media outlets.

Anyway, I wish we would steer away from partisan politics, although the OP certainly opened the door to it.

[Bonzo]

Dan, I caught your comment pre-edit; I want to be clear in that I’m not upset by it in any way…but one part of it – the following excerpt, referring to the political turn in the last few posts –  certainly concerns me quite a bit:

The OP is really the one who is responsible for it. I was bothered by the way he was stereotyping various places from the beginning.

I was not aware that I was stereotyping places, and I’m very distressed by the fact that either my words indicated that, or – far worse – that I have been actively doing so.  I’ve certainly had a few emotional, venting moments, but if I’ve been stereotyping a given location, I would be very appreciative if you could point that out, specifically, and help correct my misunderstandings.  I’m going to look back through the early posts to see what reveals itself to me, but please make your own citations as well.

[W I S N E R !]

I think it’s downright fantasy to think the question of “Where should I live in the US?” will not inevitably become political, and in that simple regard, you opened this can Bonzo.

 

[Bonzo]

Wisner, you make a good point, and I suppose that my normally apolitical view of life indicates that I do, to an extent, live in fantasy-land…so, I think that’s a good call on your part.

[W I S N E R !]

To be clear, I don’t mean any disrespect by the above statement. It’s just that I cannot meaningfully answer the question of where a person should live based on the quality of waterfalls and rainbows alone. I don’t know you, let alone what issues you are passionate or ambivalent about. Do you love your AR15 collection? Are you gay? Do you have a special needs child that will require a school district that believes in funding SPED? The list goes on and on. Politics is real and this country has always had some pretty clearly marked borders within it.

[Bonzo]

No offense taken, in any way…and you bring up some good points about personal beliefs, identity, lifestyle, necessities, and a number of other factors that I’ve purposefully left out of the discussion.  I could go into detail about a vast number of demographics, but it’s been nice to leave most of those data points unknown and just hear some input that cannot address them, and which is therefore free from their impact.  The rather undirected nature of this thread has been instrumental in the fine-tuning of our barometers; the conversation as a whole has been – and continues to be – overwhelmingly helpful.

[BlackHatGuy]

I’d say New Zealand is out…

“As supply chain pressures and shipping delays are felt around the world, New Zealand is being hit by a nationwide dearth of bourbon, with shortages also hitting the craft beer and chicken nugget markets.”

[Link .]

BONZO, I sent you a PM, actually 2.

[Bonzo]

Link – thanks for the PM!  I’ll be back in touch with you shortly. 🙂

And also, yeah…New Zealand is definitely out if there’s no beer and no nuggs.  I can take or leave the bourbon, but those other two are total deal-breakers!

[HkNewman]

Following the old advice on subscribing to the local paper if interested in moving, now another thing to look at are social media feeds from areas you desire (especially Reddit r/<town>.  Looking at Arizona for one place in the sun (literally haha),  and in particular Pima county (Tucson, etc..) for its separated bicycle trail system, happened on a thread about finding concealed rattlers in the yard … complete with pictures.  So moving there permanently it’d be a “concern” .. though I’d want to see urban snakebites vs those in the surrounding mountains if it could be a deal breaker.

violent crime

Got to look at the per capita, but also look at concentration.  NYC and other vertical cities/neighborhoods will have a “crime map” that geo-spatially looks more dense as the neighborhoods are more dense (living units stacked on top, businesses squished together) … even though the per capita is less than corresponding rural areas.  Then again there’s always “bad”neighborhoods with more property crime and even violent crime.    Still perception matters.

Also recall one trip by BPLers around Tahoe ended when they found out someone broke into the car they had waiting for them.

Getting back to water perception wise some arid communities have backup plans, some don’t (another factor against Arizona).  One factor in all this environmental stuff is acknowledging there’s a problem.  Not that I’m looking here, but at least leaders are thinking in this area:

https://www.sltrib.com/news/environment/2022/05/19/utah-legislature-consider/

There’s a pie in the sky plan by some in SLC to pipe Pacific Ocean water into the Salt Lake to keep its toxic dust under control as it dries; maybe unworkable but at least someone in Salt Lake has a plan ..

..  if one place is doing well now, there’s no guarantee it’ll do well

That’s kind of the crux but nowhere may be exempt.  Think finding an airport where a hiker can fly to backpack an area not on fire will be helpful..

[Jerry Adams]

“Some people love Portland still.”

No, no, no…  everyone hates Portland.  Don’t come here.  I should know because I’ve lived here for 60 years.  The other 8 years was in L.A. which wasn’t as bad as you might think.

Democrat politicians have made it a hell hole.

Definitely don’t look at that Time article that said Portland was one of the world’s greatest places

At least that’s what Mars Marson says.  I believe him.  Don’t I? : )

(Intentionally misspelled his name to not help his SEO)

This is chaff isn’t it?

[Jerry Adams]

“If a stranger on the internet wants to make false attacks against my home town, I’m happy to let them do it. Maybe it will keep a few people away.  :-)”

+1

 

[Bonzo]

So, a few things have happened…

Firstly, our closing date has been firmly fixed as August 23rd…and there are no takebacks on that, to my understanding.  Along with that, the buyer is asking for a firm move-out date, so that they can go ahead and schedule demolition and site grading.  I suppose that if there was any lingering doubt as to the likelihood of this moving forward to closing, that single statement erased it.  It’ll be sad to see the place go, but its been a good house and it’s time for something new to happen, there.  We’ll be staying until November, but…yeah, this is happening.  It all feels very surreal.

We’ve really been focusing our search, lately, on several areas that have been suggested by members here…so THANK YOU, to all of you, for your input and thoughts.  Right now, we’re not solidly excluding any place that’s been mentioned, but our main thoughts have continued to focus on the Olympic Peninsula in Washington, the Hood River valley and a few other spaces in Oregon, and a few spots in Alaska; Kenai and the Anchorage area have been top contenders.  This being said, we have continued to look around and we continue to consider many places, but we keep getting drawn back to those aforementioned areas for one reason or another.  I think this would be a good time to again look outside of where we’ve focused, but one way or another, it seems that the PNW is pulling us more solidly than we would have expected when this all began.  There’s a certain wildness to parts of it, blended with a strange mix of cultures, that appeals.

Lastly – and some of you will be amused at this – my replacement at work quit today.  He actually tried to quit last week, but I asked that he think clearly over the weekend before making any decisions; today, he decided that the job was too difficult.  In his words: “this is just a lot more involved than I was led to belive” and “I don’t want to be in a position with the kind of responsibility you have to take on.”  Evidently, he also tried to put in a few good words for me with the owner, all of which were quickly dismissed by the owner saying “nah, it’s an easy job…it’s just being misrepresented to you as harder than it is.”  Aside from that being an insult to me, it was a serious insult to the erstwhile employee: it implied that despite being hired for his capacity to do the job at hand, he evidently wasn’t perceptive enough to have a valid opinion on the relative difficulty of the position.  When he came back to the office after meeting with the owner and explained everything that had transpired, he just said “if I had any doubts about leaving here, his [the owner’s] attitude just erased them.  I don’t need to be in a place that thinks of their employees like that.”

So, yeah…that’s where we are.  I’m starting to feel like this move can’t happen soon enough.

[Ray J]

Sorry about the job front BS.  When I got into computing in the very early 1980’s, we were respected and acknowledged for our work, dedication and growing expertise.  Over the years, at least since the Y2K (2000) issues, management has decided that computer people are: Plug&Play, Unworthy, in it for the money and a number of other ideas.  Sadly, my last place, this had trickled down even to our direct line managers!  All they wanted was to take credit for something they couldn’t even say what it was to their boss, collect their bonus and/or get promoted.  “Peasant Scum!” was their view.  Sad…..

The “Boss” probably has no real clue about what you do.

[Bonzo]

Thanks, Ray…and it really is some BS.  Yesterday, I was told that instead of getting someone with some actual experience in here to replace me, I’m supposed to start training my boss’s 19-year old son, whom has zero experience  in the design field and whom – thus far in life – hasn’t been able to hold down a job for more than a month or two.  He’s even worked at our facility before, but his performance was so abysmal that even the operations manager – his own uncle – was opposed to him coming back in here to work.  And get this: I’m not supposed to actually train him…I’m just supposed to show him “the functional basics.”  I don’t even know what that means, and I didn’t get clarification when asked.  Nor did I get an answer about his schedule, how to handle disciplinary problems, or anything else that’s been an issue in the past.  So, yeah…there was that.

Question on locations that was posed to me via PM: how many here in the northern latitudes have dealt with Seasonal Affective Disorder?  Going from 36°N to 4o’sN drastically shortens daylight; it didn’t impact my partner and I when we were in Berlin for awhile near the winter solstice, but that time duration was a few weeks and not months on end.  Alaska being in the 60’s would be even more severe…so, what is everyone’s experience with that?

[Ray J]

LOL, what a joke your company is.  Totally need to get out.  Sounds like the “family” will keep on doing this mess until they bankrupt it.  I watched it happen at a church we were at.  The family running their company, just shouldn’t have been in charge day-to-day.  And while they hired in some good managers (also church members), they would then roadblock the changes.  A friend worked for them for a time and said the family put one of their kids in charge for a time.  A 20 year old with 2 years of junior college replacing a proven manager who had a college degree and 15 years managing electronic company warehouses and distribution centers.

On your confusing training, I’d show them the steps and let the family member be the note taker.  We found that almost worked when we were being outsourced.  You can spend a week documenting a process, painstakingly go over it with the replacement, and they get 10 percent of it.  Make them document it (It’s painful to sit and slowly step thru it with them).  And be sure to let them “Drive”.  Most people retain more if they have to actually do the process and not watch you do it.  Don’t try and force anything.  Set up a time schedule to train and if he is late or “Busy”, not your problem!  Do what you can and forget this disaster.

We lived in Anchorage when I was very little.  It was strange to have darkness for 20+ hours, and equally strange to have daylight for 20+ hours.  GOOD Black-Out curtains are your friend!  My mom said that the adults did suffer from the endless darkness.

[Roger Caffin]

Bonzo: depart rapidly, without looking back.
Cheers

[George W]

1. Don’t worry about trying to train the kid, if he absorbs anything great, if not, well, do what was asked and move on, it’s not your concern. I worked for a family owned business as the plant manager. Several of the family members would repeatedly cycle through the system at various levels of responsibility. I was more of a babysitter to them than a boss.

 

2. I live in the PNW, when I lived on the West side of WA in the winter it might be light by 8 am, then dark by 4-4:30, in between it would most likely be grey and dismal for weeks at a time. The older I got, the more it affected me.

Luckily I traveled enough that I could see nice sunny weather every couple of weeks. And let me tell you, it was a huge lift to my energy level and enjoyment of life.

I currently live in Spokane and sunrise and sunset times are almost exactly the same, but the sun shines and that makes it far more tolerable.

The fear I have of living in AK are those long dark winters.

 

[Jeff McWilliams]

I live in Michigan and the last few years I’ve really started to notice when the days get shorter in the fall.  I enjoy being outdoors, but I don’t enjoy being outdoors in the dark all that much.  Solo trail runs, for example, just lack a lot of fun when they’re done by headlamp in the dark.

[HkNewman]

Another idea is stay at a couple STR (short term rentals like Airbnb) when contemplating a move.  Missing a bus connection, I decided to stay at a couple STRs right next to one of the largest US cities (one shared home, the other on the second floor of a multilevel/unit complex), and found each had a sign … no tp flushed despite the different floor plans. That leads me to believe something is wrong with the entire sewage system of the towns, but it’s not on social media anywhere (luckily I go to a Starbucks to get my mornings … er, going).  Wouldn’t know anything is “wrong” with the neighborhood driving through it and just outside one of the premier cities in the US if not the world, .. unexpected.

Same thing with another somewhat isolated small city .. when the wind came from a certain direction one could smell the central sewage plant.  That’ll end the backyard BBQ real quick.

 

Speaking of utilities, I’ve known real estate investor/general contractor types flee certain areas (cough Las Vegas NV and urbany Arizona) over things like electric bills.  Considering much of the US including the PNW is under a heat wave, think utility resilience, will the local politicians allow semi-off grid electric generation/rainwater collection (if any of that’s important to you) can also have an effect depending on how long you plan to reside in your new abode?

[Dan K]

Bonzo, these are exciting times for you and your partner, and your future holds wonderful opportunities for you both. To that end, +1 re what Rodger said.

Now that your move-out time frame has been set, I’d like to provide a different kind perspective to your upcoming move. I hope you don’t mind, and I hope you find some of it useful. My wife and I moved ourselves 3 times in the past 27 years. These are the things we learned.

1. Time. It seemed like we never had enough time to get everything done. We were both working and packing at the same time, and found ourselves scrambling as the move out date approached.

2. Boxes. We used all the boxes we could get. For our last move, we bought a lot of about 60 boxes off of Craigslist from someone who had just moved. And after the move, we sold the boxes the same way we got them.

3. Packing tape. I was surprised at how much packing tape we used. We went back to Costco for a second pack of 8 rolls and used most of it. And don’t forget to tape your dresser drawers shut.

4. Help. For each of the moves we enlisted the help of family, friends, or, as in the last move, a moving crew. We rented the largest U-Haul truck and hired a guy and his crew to just move everything into the truck. We couldn’t have done it other wise.

5. Organize. Before having people come over to help, everything was packed and ready to be loaded onto the truck (well, almost everything).  No black garbage bags with unknown stuff in them.

6. Storage shed. We rented the smallest storage unit close to the house we were moveing out of, and as we packed, moved stuff (that we wouldn’t need) into the unit every few days just to keep the clutter around the house to a minimum. We found this useful. After the moving crew had loaded the truck, we emptied the storage shed into the remaining space in the truck and left town.

Moving is the worst part of moving. The excitment of discovering what lies ahead is the best part. I wish you the best of luck.

Dan K.

[Author]

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