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Hmm, well my bushwacking involves wading through brush with the brush contacting all parts of my body. But I’m thinking chapparal, dense stands of chamise, not pushing through saplings. I find that brush wets out my clothing much quicker than even the heaviest rain because of the agitation of water drops into smaller drops, which allows water to work its way around the dwr.
HYBRID GARMENTS:
For Alaskan/Canadian type bushwhacking conditions I think the answer lies in a HYBRID fabric garment. For example a tough urethane coated Cordura front and cuffs for pants and a lighter WPB (GTX or eVent, for ex.) back of the legs.
This way you have a durable waterproof brush-busting fabric where it’s needed and a lighter WPB fabric with a DWR finish in lower wear areas. As we can see, it’s impossible for a DWR finish to take much abrasion and remain intact. And renewing DWR in the field doesn’t seem like a good solution.
Sometimes UL has to take a back seat to practical. (I love to quote myself. ;o)
I was going to suggest looking at hunting sites too..or bow hunting more specifically.
A quick google search brought up the brands Kuiu and Sitka often.
One telling comment on a hunting forum that I think is rather similar to this discussion:
Moral of the story – In my opinion, “breathable” never equals FULLY waterproof. There is some good gear out there, but when it comes to long periods of time in the rain, nothing will keep you as dry as good ol’ rubber rain gear.
All rain gear is a compromise. I’m all about the fleece, too FWIW.
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REI looks like they have the Colombia Outdry jackets in stock. If you live near an REI you could check them out. It looks like they have 3 levels Gold, Platinum, and Diamond ranging from $175 to choke $400.
They don’t list weights for any of the jackets.
At this point who knows how breathable or durable Outdry will be, but on paper it looks like a very promising technology for just this sort of thing since it doesn’t require a DWR of any kind.
I tried emailing columbia about the weight of a jacket once and they wouldn’t tell me the weight.
They’re on pre-order status, which means they are to be shipped within 30 days, so probably will show up in store in the next month or two. I originally heard March as the release month.
That probably means it is heavy.
Even if the first generation isn’t light enough for backpacking use, I think this is potentially a game changer in WP/B jackets.
Of course it might never amount to anything and be marketing hype but you have to agree it is nice to see someone thinking outside of the box
Thanks for all the responses guys. Here’s where I’m at.
LUL says the toughest thing he has is eVent. I may go that route if I feel like spending money. What has been the experience re-applying DWR to eVent? If that works reasonably well I could probably make an eVent coat work for a couple years. I’ll probably keep a cheap spare around for causal use and save the nice one for big trips.
They aren’t heavy, I measured a press sample at 12 ounces in medium, im pretty sure that one was the ex gold tech shell. The fabric seemed burly for a 12 ounce shell.
The jacket I originally emailed them about for weight was a thin looking, $350 down jacket.
Gear institute has specs for the different OutDry versions at the end of Their review.
On event …
ask the folks on ukclimbing.com about it and do a search there
those folks climb in their event jackets (high abrasion) and we all know the weather in the UK is wild n wet
The general consensus there seems to be event is not as durable as the top goretex overall
not mention that with gore you get an additional warranty
as to windshirt over rainjacket, give it a try … But most fabrics need a temperature differential to work … The surface of yr rain jacket needs to be significantly cooler than the inside, and less humid
;)
This is a constant challenge in the PNW forests other than the middle of summer. The forests on the west side of the Cascades all the way into Alaska have thick underbrush that can rival any tropical jungle. It’s like walking through a cold car wash. Add some Devil’s Club and nettles for sheer joy :)
I would go with the lighter stuff designed for commercial fishermen. It won’t be very breathable or light, but it will be tough. For example, a Grundens Gage Weather Watch rain jacket is 18 ounces in a medium. http://shop.grundens.com/shop/jackets/gage-weather-watch-hooded-jackets/#.Vql_ZU88v4Q
They make bibs to match. Depending on the height of stuff you are trying to travel through, you might get away with using your hiking top shell and the heavy duty bottoms. Or even with just the bibs if it is just low wet brush.
+1 on wicking, fast drying stuff under, but don’t go too heavy. Cap 3-ish would be plenty for me when active. A fleece vest is great to keep the cold wet fabric at bay on your shoulders and back. I have an R1 vest that is perfect for that. I would need some nice fluffy dry stuff when stopped— you MUST have dry spares.
Good point on the temperature difference eric.
Dale thanks for the heads up on that jacket. For $63 that’s not a bad deal.
Of course if I’m going to get somewhat wet no matter what I my just stick with a 8-9oz raincoat and toss an extra 8oz worth of dry baselayer for warming up in camp later.
At this point I’ve given up on a raincoat that will last forever (unless the Columbia works out). I’m more interested in whether its worth $150 dollars to buy a nicer more breathable raincoat that I’ll try to re-coat with DWR, or whether I should keep buying $50-$70 raincoats and just replacing them every year or so.
Is being all about the fleece sort of like being all about dat bass? If so, then count me all in and excluding any treble.
I haven’t tested it yet, but i made a very simple, short, smaller poncho out of EPIC. Meant to be worn with (over) my extra silicone beefed up Houdini and in combo with a rain hat, a rain skirt, and regular nylon shorts that have EPIC fabric sewn on for the legs. I imagine the combo would do as about as well as anything in the conditions stated.
If it did, the trick would seem to be double layers of truly durableWR, but with extra ventilation.
“The rampart may be non breathable, but does the face fabric absorb water?”
No external coating, so once the face fabric gets fuzzed out a bit I’m sure it will.
I haven’t bothered with eVent in quite a while due to bad experiences, but I haven’t heard anything positive about durability that has inclined me to change my mind.
Richard N. had this to say in other posts: “For long trips in wet weather (think multiple weeks in SE AK) without access to a washer / dryer, an Epic windshirt (military level 4) is your best option when active. When static, you need to augment it with a poncho, coated jacket, or WPB jacket.”
“I use the Level 4 Beyond Clothing as a Paramo surrogate when a trip is primarily bushwhacking in the rain. The DWR on a Paramo or conventional WPB would be gone after a day versus no limit for the surrogate. Based on the effective temperature, under it I wear a Cap 4 or R1; plus an R2 vest for very cold conditions.”
I’d go with an Epic setup if you’re moving fast, and bring a UL rain jacket for stops, and camp. If the activity is more stop and go, I’d try one of the fishing jackets.
Weight-wise, one of the 70D military Epic jackets weighs around 8oz, and a UL rain jacket is another 8 or so. You’d have perhaps a more flexible system for a bit less weight than one of the fishing jackets.
Putting sil-PU panels on the more exposed parts of an Epic windshirt would be an interesting route to go too, or maybe just applying a sealer? I wonder if that alone would suffice?
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