Jan 31, 2019 at 3:40 am #3575970Kevin SweereBPL Member
One huge way to reduce weight is to carry less water. This means hitting empty just before the next, known water point. And this means knowing all of a specific trail’s water locations and have back-up for questionable ones. Besides all camps (not marked dry) and searching for streams/ponds on topo maps is there a map / resource online that show all water points at Philmont?
I read about a constantly updated, manual, not-online Water Board. Anyone have pix of this?
Our two crews got their treks, 2 & 32, and being an engineer I’d like to help them plan a bit ahead.Jan 31, 2019 at 4:03 am #3575977David YBPL Member
@moonshineLocale: Mid Tenn
Water sources in the high arid country are too unpredictable. They change with the area weather and dry up or re-appear during the season.
Your Crew Leader and Lead Advisor will visit Logistics during your first day check-in and be given the latest up to date water conditions and locations along his trek for the Crew Leader to record on his Crew Leader Copy and maps. They can change during your 10 day trek depending on weather conditions or changes.Jan 31, 2019 at 4:32 am #3575982Todd TBPL Member
@texasbbLocale: Pacific Northwest
I gave that up long ago, at least without a big fat safety factor. Getting dehydrated is Not Fun. It’s officially Less Fun than carrying a little too much weight now and then.Jan 31, 2019 at 5:26 am #3575986Walter UnderwoodBPL Member
@wunderLocale: San Francisco Bay Area
Pre-planning water happens every evening with the latest water report from the staff at the camp. If you are at a trail camp, plan with a lot of slack.
When is your start date? If it is before mid July, a lot of water sources may be dry.
In 2010, our sister crew (same start date, same itinerary) had a crewmember evac’ed from Cimmaroncito after one IV bag didn’t get him back on track.
We’d both had a dry camp on top of Mt.Phillips. It was a bit over 24 hours between water sources from lunch at Clear Creek to dinner at Cypher’s Mine. I guess he staggered from Cypher’s to ‘cito.
After not enough info from Philmont and digging through every backpacking book I owned, we schlepped six liters per person up the mountain. We were OK.
So water is the last thing I’d cut back on in those mountains. That extra liter or two? It is for irrigating wounds or for when somebody twists an ankle.
wunderJan 31, 2019 at 1:21 pm #3576011Brad PBPL Member
I haven’t been yet, but I’ve read from those who have that the water board is not 100% reliable. These are kids, so our standards are different than if an adult is going on his own. We have to err on the side of caution, which means carrying a little more water than you think you’ll need.
It’s not joyful, but as Todd said, dehydration is worse.
Other advice I’ve read is to take pictures of the water board and campsite map as a backup.Jan 31, 2019 at 3:20 pm #3576030TAG in AZBPL Member
Reinforcing what has already been said. You’ll get water updates when you visit Logistics. The crew leader will mark the water sources on their map. The information is good, but not perfect. You’ll want the crew to carry a little more water than they need just in case. And, if you have a dry camp, you’ll want to plan ahead to make sure you have enough water.
Final note – the water updates you get from logistics are *not* always up to date. Often, they are several days old and could be 10 days old by time you get there. The best info will come from crews heading the other way. We started adding water availability to the standard question list we asked crews we met on the trail.
If you aren’t familiar with the question list, it goes like this (and usually in this order)..1)what day are you on? 2) where are you from? 3) where are you heading? 4) where did you come from? To this list, we added – is there water ahead?Jan 31, 2019 at 9:06 pm #3576082Phillip MBPL Member
Sorry if someone covered this already,
One way to reduce the amount of water carried is to prepare and eat the dinner packets at your lunch stop as most of the dinner meals need more water than lunch to prepare.
Learnt that trick way back in 2012.Jan 31, 2019 at 9:56 pm #3576096David YBPL Member
@moonshineLocale: Mid Tenn
“One way to reduce the amount of water carried is to prepare and eat the dinner packets at your lunch stop..”
Talking about carrying water into dry camps. Before going to your dry camp swap meals and cook and clean-up a supper at lunch time while you are at a good water source and eat a lunch that does not require cooking and clean-up that night in the dry camp. Then you only need to carry enough drinking water to get you through to your next water source, 4 plus quarts of water each. You should tank-up (drink a full quart) and fill all your water containers at your last water source.Feb 1, 2019 at 6:04 pm #3576239chris whitmoyerBPL Member
I will be heading back to Philmont this summer on crew 624 M4. We have Trek 5 which has dry camps at Comanche Peak and at Shaefer Pass. We leave Comanche Creek and climb Mt Phillips before going to Comanche Peak. From there, we head to Sawmill. I am a little concerned about carrying enough water to get from Comanche Peak to Sawmill. At the end of our Trek, we go from Hunting Camp to Shaefer Pass. I know we can fill up at Clarks Fork so the final hike over Tooth Ridge to Base Camp is doable if we conserve our water after Clarks Fork. In 2011, we only had 1 dry camp at Bent but we cooked at Ponil and I packed a 2 1/2 gallon jug the 2 miles from Ponil. That was easy walking, not much change in elevation and along a road. I think this time I will have each member carry extra containers to fill for the dry camps.
ChrisFeb 2, 2019 at 8:48 pm #3576434Jeffrey PetersBPL Member
Chris Whitmoyer ditch those 2.5 gal water jugs. Instead make sure everyone has a 2 liter platypus bag. Much easier that dealing with those huge water jugs. Our usual water load out daily was 4 liters per scout. Usually in two smartwater bottles and two soft bottles. We each carried another soft two liter water bag that we only filled up for dry camps.Feb 4, 2019 at 2:39 am #3576675Kevin SweereBPL Member
OK, I give. Forget about water pre-planning.
Platypus 2L is $13 each, ouch.
I have a find for you. http://www.sorbentsystems.com/spoutpak.html#spoutbags. Look in the over 64 oz section. Cheaper, likely thinner, roll-flat, 3L size, bags are $42 shipped for a 20-pack…means 2x 3L for $6 per person isn’t too bad. (Or maybe just one larger bag per person is more your style.) I wouldn’t use these for my primary canteen every day… but for a dry camp or two, sure.Feb 5, 2019 at 1:45 am #3576802Bruce TolleyBPL Member
@btolleyLocale: San Francisco Bay Area
RE: Water pre-planning
You can during the training hikes start gathering data how much water your crew needs to hydrate at dinner time, to cook dinner, and to prepare breakfast, and hydrate for the first leg of the day’s hike, etc.
RE: Water board. I think some of the data is hearsay from crews that come back to basecamp. I do not think Philmont staff is inspecting the sources and gathering the data.Feb 5, 2019 at 3:05 am #3576814Tony RoncoBPL Member
“RE: Water Board. I think some of the data is hearsay from crews that come back to basecamp. I do not think Philmont staff is inspecting the sources and gathering the data.”
Formal Periodic Inspections from Philmont Staff – No.
Approximate Periodic Reports from Philmont Staff in Area – Yes.
(This includes Rangers, Camp Staff hiking on off days, Basecamp Staff hiking on off days)
Reports from crews (that have multiple confirmations) – Yes.
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