Pondering a SUL tent

Correct me if I’m wrong, but the Notch Li would be a bit narrower than the Moment, but taller. So the vestibule space would be slightly smaller? But still there are two doors and two vestibules, which is so nice! I’ve been looking at that tent too, but can’t justify the cost for the weight savings. And I keep hoping they’ll do it in a darker color. I really like the Moment DW. It has kept me dry and comfortable in days of rain and humidity, wind, frost, and hot sun. Best is the less than five minute setup.

I liked my Notch quite a bit in every way other than its length when packing due to the end struts. If you can live with the packed length, my $.02 is to not hesitate on going with the Notch.

That said, it’s not really a double wall tent any more than a mid with an inner. You’ve got mesh in between you and the fly. I suppose drips could be deflected by mesh but I’d rather have access to the fly so I can wipe it down with a bandana if I’m dealing with condensation. YMMV

A SUL tent might be quite small to begin with. It’s easy for an inner tent to make a tent smaller.

I too am contemplating a new tent. I set up and went through my 2015 Hexamid twin. It was still set up in the back yard when it rained 1.5″. I was surprised the bathtub floor was perfectly dry in the morning. The Hexamid Twin has about 6″ of mesh wall, and the whole bottom is mesh. I had considered the mesh wall to be a wet wall in a good storm, but it worked ok. I watched from a window in the morning as almost all the rain drained off the ends. What really surprised me was most of the water was running along the corner lines and dripping well away from the tent.

I was thinking I might sell it, so I weighed it. At 14.4 oz with the ropes it is going to be hard to beat for weight. The bathtub floor might not count as part of the shelter weight as it doubles as my poncho. The large interior volume helps lots with condensation; as long as I don’t set my tent up on grass it works quite well.

The side entry has lots of advantages when the weather is nice. But, when it is raining I think I would like a front entry better. It would keep the rain on the fabric further from my head.

Good Luck, Eric!  I’ve found that changing my gear for a lighter load has been a long process on MYOG projects. But the result has been worth it, in terms of lighter weight – from 55 lbs 15 years ago to 20-25 lbs now.  That is not ‘base’ weight; rather it is total pack weight, including food for a week.  If out more than a week, use food and equipment caches, at a place of lodging if possible; but that is not always the case, so the cache is in a heavy green woven spectra bag bought from Ursack,, and hung well off trail  double wrapped in clipped opsacs, and carry a little DIY map to help me locate the cache.  This lightens weight a lot, compared with the old approach of packing food for 30 or so days at a time, like from Mount Washington to Mount Katahdin on the AT, or almost half way across Colorado, going N to S.

At this point, Roger Caffin has convinced me that the next tent could be a bit heavier in order to be more wind and storm worthy.  So may actually be adding a few ounces for a bit more space and much greater stability in the wind and weather, including stability when pitching.   Have also stayed with woven fabrics, and double walls (real solid walls, not a mesh inner ceiling) so that means a bit more weight compared to DCF, which has never appealed to me for a number of reasons.  But with the continuing availability of better and and lighter materials, am not sure that the next tent will be heavier than the current one, which is just over 2 lbs for a spacious tent (one person + 2 medium size shetland sheep dogs).

Dumping 30 lbs off my total pack load was sure worth it!

Try the Zpacks Duplex. It has lots of space and has been used extensively by lots of folks. I met a PCT thru hiker who was using Notch Li and his hiking partner was using a Duplex. The Notch Li guy was going to upgrade to the Duplex so that he will have more space to eat inside his tent;-) Also do not have to worry about frames or struts etc with the Duplex so that stuffing the tent inside the pack is easier. I have the Duplex tent/Altaplex tarp and now the Solplex tent. I like them all and have never had any issues with the Zpacks tents….they are awesome.

Condensation with DCF tents are overstated. Whenever I have condensation in my DCF tent, the nylon tents had much worse condensation. DCF dries faster.

I’m afraid I would not like the Duplex much because of the low ceiling right over my head. But, other than that, I agree, the Hexamid Twin (and maybe the Duplex) is an awesome tent.

The purpose of the strut on the Notch is to increase headroom while lying down. In that way it hopes to overcome some of the inherent disadvantage of a side entry tent.

Just watch your height Eric. Not all those options will give you the length of the moment. Especially with your Megalite.

If my 1st generation Hexamid died now I would most likely go for the Aeon, but the Notch is right up there in my options. As other have indicated, I wouldn’t worry about condensation. It’s much less severe (typically) in Cuben shelters, and with just a bit of care it’s not troublesome.  That said, if you feel significantly more comfortable using a double wall, then a few ounces for a piece of mind is very reasonable IMHO.

–mark

It;s good to see brand loyalty Eric. Maybe the Notch Li is just what you need. Double-wall isn’t something that would make a big difference to me, but I can’t blame you for going that way. I’m sure you know what you want at this point in your life.

Front entry might be a deal breaker for you Eric, however, if not I’d suggest looking at the Trekkertent Stealth DCF. It’s double-wall and weighs 15 oz total. The Stealth also has a smaller footprint and is better in strong winds than the other DCF tents mentioned. Costs 435 British Pounds or about $545.

Thanks Monte for this tent….it looks good. Had not heard of them till your post. Finally someone has made an A frame DCF tent that provides 360 degree protection for 15 oz. Yama mountain gear is heavier I think. I wonder if this tent can be made lighter by attaching a permanent mesh (lot less material) to the 3 sides rather than a 4 sided inner mesh. I will probably contact them to see if they can make a custom one and see what the weight might be.

Karen,  Yep, I very much want a brown or green tent. If there were a way to dye Dyneema I’d do it. That’s the big thing holding me back from pulling the trigger on the Notch Li.

Monte, That’s uninteresting design that I’ll take a closer look at to see if maybe it is more to my liking. Thanks for the photos. I like that generous vestibule and wish the tent had a bit more ventilation than that one peak vent.

All ‘mid users, If I was going for a ‘mid tent I’d get the Aeon Li and rig a semi-permeant mesh liner like Murali mentions for the Trekkertent Stealth. Believe me I’ve thought of it and know exactly how I’d do it.

However I’ve seen Ryan’s video of the Aeon Li in a snowstorm and I think it pushed me to the Notch Li, especially since it’s much like my Moment DW and I know the Moment’s storm-worthiness is good.

Personally, I like 0.8oz dyneema compared to TarpTents and Zpacks 0.51oz. I have a YMG Cirriform in the color black, which helps with nontransparency and drying. That said, dyneema, like Murali stated, has minimal condensation compared to silnylon. I wouldn’t worry about having a single wall shelter in dyneema. If I had to do it all over again, I would have purchased the Cirriform SW, instead of the DW for the weight and ease in setup.

“dyneema .. has minimal condensation compared to silnylon”

That does not square with our testing.  Condensation happens when damp air meets cold fabric.  Fabrics get cold, regardless of material, especially when exposed to direct sky at night when heat radiates away in the infrared.  Dyneema can be utterly soaked a few feet from utterly dry silnylon when the only difference is tree cover. Dyneema does shake dry faster but it most certainly does suffer condensation.

Let me clarify, condensation will act in the exact same matter, whether the material is from dyneema or silnylon. However, I do believe silnylon has a tendency to hold onto moisture more than dyneema. At least dyneema that hasn’t be roughed up from years of abuse.This has just been from my own personal experience.

Monte, I meant to say that’s an INTERESTING design.

Why I can’t, less than a day later, edit my post is YET ANOTHER of BPL’s software problems. Aaaarrrgggghhh!

Ryan says change is coming… But I check the box for “Notify me of follow-up replies via email” but I do NOT get notices of “follow-up replies via email”

Murali C – I saw a custom single-wall DCF Stealth on Gearswap about 6 months ago, but I don’t know whether or not Trekkertent would still be willing to make one for you..

Eric – The Stealth is also available in camo. Weighs about 25 grams more. I’ve been lusting for the camo version quite awhile now. Looks a little glossy in this pic though.

MONTE, It’s interesting that adding color to the Stealth adds weight, especially 25 grams.

But that is exactly what I’d like for stealth camping, which I have done on the AT in the Shannondoah National Park. And whaddya know, the tent is called the Stealth. And as well colored Dyneema gives shade and more privacy.

@danepacker (and others): Ryan has stated elsewhere that the inability to edit posts is deliberate policy, not a software problem. The posts are editable for a short time to correct typos, but the aim is to avoid people altering or deleting their posts after they’ve been replied to and thus making threads confusing or skewing the meaning.

Garret,
Re: “Let me clarify, condensation will act in the exact same matter, whether the material is from dyneema or silnylon. However, I do believe silnylon has a tendency to hold onto moisture more than dyneema. At least dyneema that hasn’t be roughed up from years of abuse.This has just been from my own personal experience.”

Using mylar on the walls of single wall tents to reduce condensation was pioneered by the late Jack Stephenson of Warmlite. The outer material of DCF (Dyneema Composite Fabric) is mylar or a chemical equivalent. So many have commented on reduced condensation in their DCF tents that I think there is a consensus about that; but not so much about the physics involved. There are plenty of threads on BPL about the physics for inquiring minds. Since TOTAL elimination of condensation on the inside wall of a tent is a high priority for me, I opt for double walls. Realize that there is still condensation on the inside of the outer wall, but out of sight out of mind.

Another question to ask is how often are you getting condensation?

In my 45 nights (JMT, PCT-Washington, Big Bend) under DCF tents, I had condensation  (without rain) only once and a hiker a few feet away from me in his non-DCF tent had condensation as well that same night.

And after rain, non-DCF tents feel like wet towels.

I don’t think condensation should be a deciding factor between DCF and  non-DCF tent selection.

I’d suggest looking at the Trekkertent Stealth DCF. It’s double-wall and weighs 15 oz total.

Great looking tent… thanks for the head’s up.

William C., Thanks for clarifying that OP editing reasoning. I’ll just do as some others and post again if I need to make corrections.

But secondary posters should have the ability ro make corrections a day to three later.

Get a DCF flat tarp. Condensation does not matter with a flat tarp. You can pitch it high enough for your head. You can do different pitches depending on your need. This spring I did a hike with an 8×10 silnylon tarp. It rained every night but I never got wet. I pitched it as a plain A-frame every time. One nice thing with a flat tarp (or maybe any kind of tarp) is you can throw your pack down, lay the tarp over it, then set up the tarp over your pack. Then unpack your stuff. The only reason DCF would be better than silnylon, other than weight, is that silnylon gets wetter. It absorbs water. If you have to pack it up wet and take it with you, it’s going to be wetter than DCF.

I’ll say it again:

For the same weight as the Aeon Li you could have a 2P mid like a Duomid, and live in a palace.  Tons of room.