- Dec 13, 2016 at 4:35 pm #3440330
did you mean the ordinary Coreloft because I haven’t seen CLO/oz-values (yet) for Coreloft Continuous (which is version of Climashield) ?Dec 13, 2016 at 4:43 pm #3440331
i mean coreloft continuous, and i am having to infer the clo from other information. Richards paper, if i remember correctly, put coreloft at .82, though Arcteryx has claimed ~5% less than Primaloft Gold at .92, which is .874. i have seen .87 thrown around other places as well. then when i looked into coreloft continuous, i found anecdotal evidence from other people (and myself) who do not notice a difference between the two, suggesting they are the same or within a few .01, and Arcteryx themselves have stated (in response to questions on the product page for the proton ar) that the clo is the same. even if not quite the same, then in that general area. so .87 at most, .80ish on the low end. please someone chime in if they have a specific value from a decent source.Dec 13, 2016 at 5:01 pm #3440332
I know it’s one of the Climashield-products but now I have still to figure out which one. Your and experiences of others might point in the direction of Apex.Dec 13, 2016 at 5:46 pm #3440336
Kris wrote “I think you should just get a 3A.” Not sure that was directed to me, but I think I will give it a try given the sale price, and my effort to stay warm this winter. My thinking is this.
Cool day I can stick with capilene + 3A (or R1 hoody and a windshirt – need to test) when hiking and my Montbell Ex light Anorak in camp.
If temps are predicted lower I can don the R1 as my baselayer and the 3A as my mid/wind shell while hiking and then add the Montbell in camp. I’ll still take capilene or merino for sleeping clothes, and I can wear it all in camp if necessary.
BTW…I got the Montbell Ex Light Anorak that I just purchased here on BPL and it’s AWESOME. So much lighter than my previous down or synthenic puffies, but it keeps lofting up from even the lightly compressed package it came in.Dec 13, 2016 at 6:17 pm #3440337KrisBPL Member
No, Bob, that was directed at Richard because he has an interest in the SOF- PCU.
I am in no way a lightweight backpacker. I can describe my experience regarding a specific piece of gear if it comes up here, but I likely evaluate gear differently than you do. I won’t try to suggest that I have any insight into whether my choices would work for you.Dec 14, 2016 at 4:41 am #3440375iagoBPL Member
@iagoLocale: Boston & Galicia, Spain
So a lot of the posters seem to be speaking about wearing Alpha and not take it off throughout most of their endeavor. At that point, would Polartec Wind Pro make more sense for some users? I have read 60 CFM on Polartec’s official literature, and saw similar numbers posted by Richard, so that seems just as good if not better than a good number of Alpha garments described here. Long term, it’s probably also a lot more durable to both compression from the pack straps and from abrasion o rips. On the downside, it is significantly heavier and less compressible. But if it is foreseebly going to be worn for a significant part of the outing, I think it makes more sense for some people in some circumstances. When mountaineering, I am afraid to I am going to snag Alpha and destroy it, so I take my BD tangent hoodie.Dec 14, 2016 at 8:47 am #3440391
Your assessment relative to the applicability of the Polartec Thermal Pro alternative to Alpha active insulations are valid. There is also a rain benefit to Alpha Epic shelled military garment or a military Epic soft shell combined with fleece. They have a HH in the 700 mm range. This provides garment life time DWR and effective protection in rain, when active.Dec 14, 2016 at 12:20 pm #3440420Christoph BlankBPL Member
Quick question regarding windshirt+fleece – as far as I read the preferred fleece is Thermal Pro High Loft when weight is an issue. Can anyone recommend actual Jackets/Pieces? I didn’t find too much information here in the forum, at least with that term.
On a side note: It’s sad that all these numbers and tables always disappear in endless threads.. I wish there would be a better way to collect this here.Dec 14, 2016 at 12:36 pm #3440425
I have been using a modified Greg Norman Epic jacket along with a Patagonia R2 Fleece for most cold and rainy temps while moving, 50-10F, and find it works pretty well. I can also wear the combo around town and hear and there.
The 3A looks nice but what is the longevity of Alpha? I know my R2 will last about a decade or so.Dec 14, 2016 at 12:46 pm #3440427
MH monkey man is a pretty poplar option at 14oz, or TNF radium at 15oz (both hoodless). I think REI has something, and I’m sure there are others.
I use the Patagonia R3. a little heavier at 17.7oz (med), but I like the hood and extra pockets. some people don’t like that it is reversible, because reversible zipper or the extra weight from the pockets, but doesn’t bother me, and I like being able to reverse it to the less snow-catching side.Dec 14, 2016 at 11:19 pm #3440489
I was sold on trying the Patagonia Level 3A at $106, and there was supposedly one L available last night in retro khaki so I purchased it. But got the email today that they have no more. Back reading the thread again and looking for that elusive ideal mid-layer to fill out my winter kit (~35 CFM and warmer than my R1 hoody, but not too warm :).
Unfortunately, I’m a bargain shopper and stuff like the Arcteryx Proton AR is not in the budget. I checked a few other recommendations (Polartec Wind Pro or Thermal Pro), but they seem not-too-available or too expensive. Any one know of a deal in that same $100 range that has some of the characteristics of the Alpha jacket I almost had coming my way?Dec 15, 2016 at 12:09 am #3440493
check out the marmot isotherm on sierra trading post. did not check to see if the daily deals apply to this particular jacket, but that’s a decent price anyway. no idea what the air permeability of the jacket is…this review seemed to think it was enough for active use. i looked at this jacket for a bit, but wanted a hood and got a sweet deal on a different piece.Dec 15, 2016 at 4:00 am #3440499iagoBPL Member
@iagoLocale: Boston & Galicia, Spain
A couple of days ago, I saw some Large sized Rab & Marmot Alpha pieces on sale one Campsaver outlet and they offered an additional 20% off, which brought them to the real of reasonable prices… I think they are not doing the 20% off at the moment. Also, REI had Nano Air size large for about 50% off on their garage once you applied an extra $20 off $100 spent.
Also, if you are okay with lightly used, you can probably find some windpro pieces on eBay at reasonable prices… I am not sure why it isn’t more commonly available as it does offer a strong array of advantages for some users in certain scenarios… But oh, well…Dec 15, 2016 at 7:57 am #3440512
Also, is there a specific number or range that the Patagonia Level 4 CFM might be? Thank you.Dec 15, 2016 at 11:02 am #3440552
Perhaps of interest in this topic: from FW17 Pertex will have a new brand structure, based on 3 brands
Dec 15, 2016 at 2:34 pm #3440589
- Quantum with the textiles Quantum, Quantum Pro (more weatherproof) and Quantum Air (more breathable)
- Shield with Shield and Shield Pro
I see the Marmot Isotherm on both Sierra Trading Post and Campsaver, and also the Rab Strata Flex Jacket on Campsaver for a little more. Both use Polartec Alpha, but they don’t list the weight. Marmot uses the Pertex Quantum GL and Rab uses Pertex Microlight. Does anyone know if the CFM for these face fabrics is in the ~35 range Richard recommended? Is it right to say the overall CFM would essentially be the rating of the lowest CFM layer, i.e. you don’t have to apply advanced physics?Dec 15, 2016 at 4:01 pm #3440598
Patagonia’s published specs for the Patagonia Nano Air was 40 CFM. It is a reasonable assumption that their other “active insulation” commercial garments are in this general range, as are their military garments such as the 3A.
The Pertex spec for Quantum GL is less than 10 CFM. The Petex spec for Microlight is less than 2 CFM but, Rab specs their Microlight garment using this fabric at 6 CFM (pick who you believe – smile)
You can ignore the physics; just look at the specification for their face fabric and use that to compare.
Besides different face fabrics being offered by different vendors, the areal weight of Polartec Alpha, or a similar active insulation, will vary for each product.Dec 15, 2016 at 4:08 pm #3440599
maybe my brain remembers something wrong, but didn’t you wrote a while ago that some version of Microlight has a CFM of ± 15 ?Dec 15, 2016 at 4:22 pm #3440601Christoph BlankBPL Member
Woubeir, I think you are referring to:
This is what I came across yesterday as well and got confused.
Also: In the excel sheet that circulated once, comparing garments, Pertex Equilibrium is rated at 111, while if you search for it it’s stated that it is 10 CFM.Dec 15, 2016 at 6:19 pm #3440614
Woubier & Christoph,
Typo fixed … sorry.
Active insulation products, you haven’t seen fabric name specs for unlike Pertex’s, can generally be categorized into two classes by looking at other products in that vendor’s product line. If they use that fabric in combination with down or short staple it is less than 10 CFM.Dec 16, 2016 at 7:04 am #3440652Jeff McWilliamsBPL Member
The Marmot Alpha Pro jacket is also for sale in some locations for a heavy discount.
Quite a different construction: Polartec Alpha in the “vest” area, with a combination of Power Stretch and Polartec HIgh Efficiency in the side panels and sleeves.Dec 16, 2016 at 7:29 am #3440655
which typo was fixed ?Dec 16, 2016 at 9:16 am #3440659
So, the Patagonia 3A has an Epic finish and not just a DWR?Dec 16, 2016 at 9:54 am #3440663
the Alpha Pro seems to be another Alpha jacket with the low CFM Pertex Quantum shell, although the side panels and arms might increase breathability greatly, wouldn’t they also let in a cold draft?
Jeff…did you jump on a Patagonia Level 3A while they had it? I called Patagonia yesterday after receiving my “oops…no longer in stock” email and they were able to find a jacket in multicam that they said they will send me. I would have preferred the alpha green over the retro khaki or multicam, but any should be good as a test. If I don’t like it, it may go up for sale here or be returned to Patagonia.
I’m pretty sure the Level 3A is NOT Epic. That reference was to other garments and not sure those use Alpha. I haven’t tried Epic or GoreTex pro. Like I said above, I’m a bargain shopper. TNF was nice enough to replace an older shell that was coming delaminated with a GoreTex PacLite Dryzzle. That’s as close as I get to state of the art. In any case, my goal was for a hiking jacket for relatively cold and dry/moist weather, and I will deal with a shell over it when the weather turns nasty. As an aside…rare day in SoCal this morning where we could test rain gear. I wish I was headed for the local mountains instead of work. It’s raining cats and dogs.Dec 16, 2016 at 10:40 am #3440669
For S17, Mammut comes with the 350g Foraker IN Light Hooded Jacket with Alpha (no weight known yet).
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