Philmont Issue

[Brad P]

So, they’re sold out of canister stove fuel and that’s what we use. We head out on trail at 9 and they don’t know when the truck will arrive

I REALLY don’t want to switch to white gas at the last second.

[Stephen Everson]

That is terrible!  Did you check the stash of cans on the shelves behind where you pick up your gear?  You might find some full cans there…

[Bruce Tolley]

So the Tooth of Time trading post is out of canister fuel?

Is there not a collection point for canisters from crews coming off the trail?

[Brad P]

People already picked through the used ones. All empty.

Our ranger will bring hers to Maxwell if nothing available tomorrow morning and they can ship fuel out to our first staffed camp.

[Matthew / BPL]

Time to cold soak!

[Bruce Tolley]

Philmont is falling way off the mark.

If you are very parsimonious with fuel, one 8 oz canister might get you to your first staffed camp, that is after two nights on the trail, right?

[David Y]

Bruce Tolley said, “If you are very parsimonious with fuel, one 8 oz canister might get you to your first staffed camp, that is after two nights on the trail, right?”

Its time to only boil enough water needed to re-hydrate and cook the meals according to the amount printed on the packets and stop boiling water to wash dishes. “Campsuds works equally well in cold water.”

Read the packet recipe for the exact amount of water needed times the number of packets and put only that amount of clear water in your pot. Cover it with a lid and use a wind screen and have everything ready before you light the stove. As soon as the water boils add the food, stir to thoroughly wet and mix the food until it boils again. Shut off stove to conserve fuel, cover pot and set on ground to cook and rehydrate.

Your canisters will last a long time if you are conservative and smart.

Good luck.

 

[Roger Caffin]

My records over the last 10+ years show that we use about 30 g of canister fuel per day for the two of us. We eat quite well.

Cheers

[Brad P]

We’ll see how today goes. Boiling just enough water is smart and my way, but then the ranger doesn’t get to teach the Philway.

[David Y]

The only “Philway” you would be omitting is boiling extra water for dish washing. Our two crews have been doing it this way for the last 6 or 7 treks (12 to 14 years) and never had a Ranger object. Instead of the Ranger showing us how to cook and clean-up the “Philway” we show him how we do it and our way completely satisfy them and Philmont’s intent.

We do everything in one 8 (or 6) quart pot. We don’t even carry the second pot. We start by only putting the measured amount of water called for on the meal packets in a covered and wind screen wrapped pot and bring it to a rolling boil. As soon as the water boils, we sanitize (completely submersing) all bowls and spoons using the large stir spoon to fish them out and place them on a Bear Bag to drip. Then we add all the food stirring to thoroughly wet and mix until it boils again. Shut off stove, cover and set the pot on the ground to cook and rehydrate. After all the food is completely consumed, we all (lick or otherwise) clean our bowls and spoons and the clean-up guy does the same with the pot. He then half fills the pot with cold stream (or otherwise) water and washes the dishes using Campsuds, and so on and so on according to Philmont’s clean-up and sumping methods.

All elements of the “Philway” have been accomplished except boiling extra water for dishes washing.

We use Dragonfly stoves and seldom use more than 40 ounces of white gas for a crew of 12 on 10-day treks.

“Philmont should be enjoyed, not endured.” Moonshine

[Gerry H]

Sitting in DEN waiting to return home. We used TWO 8 oz. Cans on a 12 day trip.

We used a 1 liter and 1.8 liter heat exchanger pots. Our Ranger was OK with sanitizing in the 1.8 liter pot. We put the water and food in a PhilPot for hydrating. We then boiled another 1.8 liter of water for cleanup.

Stop at a Dicks Sporting Goods on your way to PSR. They carry MSR fule canisters.

 

[Gerry H]

BtW, Dicks Sporting Goods allows you to return unused isobutane canisters

[James A]

Sounds like Brad didn’t find out that Philmont was out of canisters till they were already on site. That kind of thing is impossible to predict ahead of time and unfortunate. I expect a number of crews would be in the same predicament. I have seen suggestions to check out the canisters people leave at base camp, but from what we saw, these were all empty or very nearly so.

Hope it worked out for you, Brad!

[Gerry H]

Yes, Brad found out too late. I was trying to help the “next crew” avoid the problem.

I had a (correct)  hunch PSR was going to be over-burdened with all the extra crews that got bumped from 2018. TOTT was sold out of some types of belt buckles, stickers, etc. New general manager told us in the advisors meeting that they were having 24K participants this summer, an all-time record.

I still had a great time, but in my opinion, BSA bringing in brand new management this year was not a wise choice.

[Stephen Everson]

While we were out on trail, Philmont had a record of 57 crews check in one day.  The staff was saying the backcountry is full.  At one of our food pickups, they were out of the correct dinner packet that we were supposed to pick up.  So we ended up getting the same dinner again that we already had. I was surprise when the scouts came back with the same dinner packet, until the scout told me the story.  Maybe Philmont need to poll the crews coming to find out how many of them use liquid versus canisters. At least they would know the percentage of crews that use canisters to stock them.

[Roger Caffin]

Philmont is beginning to sound more like a badly overcrowded Disneyland to me.

Cheers

[David Y]

It’s not just a adventure, it’s a challenge. LOL

[Pedestrian]

Philmont is beginning to sound more like a badly overcrowded Disneyland to me.

It always has been Disneyland….now it appears it’s also overcrowded….

[Gerry H]

Going to Philmont is not a “backpacking trip”. Philmont is a bunch of places to stop at and do activities on a huge piece of land. The activities are run by staff who are excellent at that task and try to portray a person from a different historic era. So, a comparison to a Disney property aren’t totally wrong.

It is a large tract of undeveloped land where you will not see the neighbors except when you are on the tallest peaks. Airplanes flying overhead (plus rarely seen support trucks) are the only indicator that you are in modern America. This is where the Disney comparison ends.

It is a tertiary feature that Scouts have to walk from location to location and carry everything with them. It resembles “historical backpacking”. It is not “modern sensibilities backpacking”. The purpose behind Philmont isn’t to teach backpacking, it is to let modern youth live and enjoy being in a western-themed wilderness environment and learn responsibility. Waite Phillips, the man who donated the first huge pieces of land, wanted boys (It was 1938 – girls didn’t visit until later on) to have a chance to taste the early 20th century semi-frontier life that he was shaped by.

[David Y]

I agree, the purpose behind Philmont isn’t to teach backpacking, you should be proficient at it before you go.

Philmont is the premier Boy Scouting experience and so practices the Baden-Powell fundament principle of Boy Scouting, the Patrol Method.

“It resembles ‘historical backpacking’. It is not ‘modern sensibilities backpacking’”

I think by Philmont (and Scouting) emphasizing the Patrol Method rather than individual styles of “modern sensibilities backpacking” returns the crew to the “historical backpacking”. The Duty Roster rotates important duties to individuals to serve their crew (patrol). Each day one member cooks for the crew, another cleans-up, another navigates and so on. Mastering a skill while performing a service to his crew.

I feel a some people coming into Boy Scouts bring with them their individualistic “modern sensibilities backpacking” (which are good techniques) and do not fully endorse the Patrol Method. The Patrol Method is not about individuals hiking the same trail and camping in the same place. It is a group working together and serving the group. Kind of like “there is no I in team (patrol)”.

“Philmont should be enjoyed, not endured.” Moonshine

[two pints]

The goal of Philmont isn’t teaching UL backpacking techniques.  Nor is Philmont meant to be the be-all-end-all wilderness experience.  Part of scouting is teaching principles and techniques, applying them, then building on those principles and techniques to enable growth.  Keep in mind that a BSA troop is composed of scouts aged from 11-17.99999 years old.  A 14 year old first class scout (minimum requirement for philmont) who has never been backpacking, or has done very little backpacking with his troop isn’t ready for a 10 day wilderness backpacking trip.

For me, Philmont was my first real backpacking trip, and it was a blast.  Not only did I get to see a part of the country I had never been in before, and get to hike through beautiful scenery, and get to learn new bp skills, I also got to tour an old mine, shoot black powder rifles, get my first taste of rock climbing, hang out in an old west saloon drinking sarsaparilla, climb spar poles with logging spurs, and learn a ton of history of the old west era as it pertains to the area around the ranch.  And I got to climb my first mountain.

Since then, I have been hooked, and I spend as much time as I can in the outdoors.  Now 29 years later, I am going back with my son, and I am so excited for him.

Philmont isn’t anywhere close to Disneyland.  I’m getting tired of hearing people crap all over Philmont because they don’t let them do things the way they want, or it’s too crowded for their taste, or whatever.  Deal with it, do it the Philmont way, set a good example for your scouts, and let them have a good time.  These are the kinds of wilderness experiences that very few youth get to experience.  And these are the kinds of wilderness experiences that imbue people with a lifelong love for the outdoors.

[Jay L]

Some people may compare Philmont to Disney as a commentary on it being crowded.  I think the more relevant comparison is about their approach to what they offer – a Philmont trek is not about the backpacking just as a Disney vacation is not about the rides.  They are both about the “premium experience” – you can hike mountains or ride roller coasters at lots of other places for a lot less money.  But there is no place else on earth to get “Philmont Experience” or the “Disney Experience”.  They both combine location + activities + interaction + their own type of “magic” to make up the total package.

 

 

[Matt Dirksen]

I’m just grateful it’s open this year, albeit crowded.

I wonder just how many kids lost their “one and only chance” to go to Philmont last year. I’m sure a good number of those kids are in college now and may not ever have a chance to go back again.

Regarding canisters, they should accept the fact that isobutane is here to stay, and will likely become more and more popular over time.

 

[David Y]

I agree whole heartily with you, Mike Whitesell. Thank you.

I too am tried of listening to people complain about Philmont’s (Boy Scout’s) methods and techniques.

[two pints]

I’m shocked we got approved for 2 crews in 2020.  All the crews that got cancelled in 2018 were given first preference to reschedule for 2020.  2019 was not an option for the 2018 crews that got canceled due to fire because the 2019 lottery already took place in December 2017.

If it seems more crowded than normal this year, it is because there are camps and trails that are not open yet, so the scouts are confined to a smaller portion of the property.

[Author]

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