Philmont Gear List – 15 pound base weight

Rob,

Thanks for sharing!  I am also a side-sleeper and have searched long and hard for a good pillow.  What do you like about the Nemo and how “tall” does it get (website says 4″ versus Sea to Summit Aero at 5″).  Do you augment the pillow with clothes underneath?

Thanks, Don

I’ll measure the Nemo Luxury pillow loft once I get home tomorrow. I think I might try to take a pic of the pillow inflated next to a ruler to give you a visual. I usually have one arm under the pillow as I lay on my side, so that gives it some extra loft. The Nemo Luxury is a wide pillow and has a super comfy memory foam surface. It is heavy at 12 ounces, but it is the most comfortable backpacking pillow I have found. They make a new Elite Luxury version that weighs 4 ounces, but I found that one to be uncomfortable as it felt like sleeping on a balloon.

Great, thanks!  I’m currently using a Zpacks Medium Plus Pillow Dry Bag stuffed with my down jacket for softness and underneath the StoS Aeros for extra loft (I am not an arm sleeping).  Definite limitations to my system.  Appreciate the help!

Don,

I measured the loft on my Nemo Fillo Luxury pillow and it is right at 5 inches. Pretty good loft for a backpacking pillow, but my favorite features are the size (10”x20”) and super comfy memory foam surface. Sure, it weighs 12 ounces, but for me it is the difference between a good night sleep and a restless one.

Let me know if you need any more info.

Rob

Not a huge savings, but a Fozzils Bowlz is a little lighter and even more compact. Bonus, it’s cheap.

What’s the battery life like on the Panasonic?

Does anyone know how the Montbell umbrellas compare to the other hiking umbrellas that various retailer re-brand?

Not a huge savings, but a Fozzils Bowlz is a little lighter and even more compact. Bonus, it’s cheap.

• Yes, these are great bowls and I have seen many people use them at Philmont.  Since they open flat, they are also easy to lick clean, which is a great bonus.  My wife got me the x-bowl a few years back, so that is why I use that one.  Either is a good option.

What’s the battery life like on the Panasonic?

• I have one battery in the camera and carry one spare.  The weight of the spare battery is included in the “miscellaneous” line.  That has been plenty for me.

Does anyone know how the Montbell umbrellas compare to the other hiking umbrellas that various retailer re-brand?

• The Montbell one is almost identical is size, weight, and function to the Snow Peak one I have.  They are great because they are light, collapse down very small, and pretty resilient, but the main downside is that you have to unfold each rib when putting it up or down.  This can take about 30 seconds.  I am ok with this as i tend to only take it out if it is raining while cooking or raining while we are standing around waiting for program and such.  If I was hiking in an area where I knew it was going to rain all the time, I would go with the Liteflex (made by euroSCHIRM and sold re-branded by places like Gossamer Gear, Zpacks, etc.).  Those are awesome umbrellas, but they weigh a little more and don’t fold down as compact.  Really depends on what you need the umbrella to do.

Yes on the backpacking umbrella! Everyone always looked at me funny, as a Ranger in ’15 and ’16, until we were hiking in the blazing sun or a light rain! I use the Liteflex from Gossamer Gear, that doesn’t shorten, and really like it. The single-length shaft is supposed to be stronger than the collapsible ones; however, the single-length umbrellas are about 1.3oz heavier (on Gossamer Gear’s website).

The Fenix LD02 is about the same weight as the Petzl e+lite and has a higher max light output (100 vs 50). Although, if it’s just an emergency backup, then that may not matter.

I am not sure if it’s included in your miscellaneous or toiletries bag. But, I would recommend you carry any personal foot care you need. Your crew should be carrying a first aid kit for the group; however, it would be easier if you carried any small personal items you need for self care. I believe any drugs taken are supposed to be recorded, so maybe leave those for the group kit. But, any Leukotape, moleskin, or benzoin would be easier to access without going to someone else every single time you need it. This might also make it easier for everyone in your crew, if they all carry their own, to fix their feet more efficiently. Have fun!!

Very good list — I will second that Platypus collapsible water bottles and Smart Water bottles are both very good options at Philmont — tough, cheap and lightweight.  My luxury item is a “sit pad” cut from a closed cell foam mattress.  “Don’t leave home without it”!  I think you have one too many hike shorts and one too many hike shorts.  I don’t see an option for long pants unless you are including your rain pants — you need long pants for the crew conservation project — I find a pair of convertible shorts / pants are great.  You don’t need a backup headlamp — your backup light source can be a tiny (but bright) Photon or Streamlight micro-light.  Zip Loc bags and a couple of trash bags are nice for gear if you don’t want to carry/buy all those dry bags. Throw a plastic whistle in your kit and I think you are good to go.  Have fun — you will feel good on the trail rocking a light-weight pack.

Thank you Steve for your reply!  :)

I wanted to reply to some of your comments.

I think you have one too many hike shorts and one too many hike shorts. 

• I only have one spare pair of hike shorts and one spare short sleeve hike shirt.  I think this is the bare minimum.  I wouldn’t want to take less than that.
• I do include a long sleeve hike shirt and this is due to my fair complexion.  While I have some sunscreen in my kit, I find that I have needed to switch over to a long sleeve hike shirt at times when the sun is very strong.  This is something that some people may not need if they are not as sensitive to the sun.  Damn my English and Irish genetics.  :)
• Now, I do also list a sleep shirt and sleep shorts.  That is one of those pesky Philmont things.  By rule, you are supposed to have them as they don’t want you sleeping in the same clothes you hike in, eat in, etc.  A bear precaution.  However, it really depends on the Ranger you get.  Some are sticklers for the rule and make you show them during the gear check.  Others don’t seem to care much.  My sleep set only weighs 3 ounces, so I have them just in case they decide to push that rule.

I don’t see an option for long pants unless you are including your rain pants — you need long pants for the crew conservation project — I find a pair of convertible shorts / pants are great. 

• Yes, I use my rain pants as my long pants for conservation.  Saves having to take another pair or some zip-offs.  The Mountain Hardwear rain pants I use are pretty light (8 ounces), but still hardy enough that they don’t rip apart like frogg toggs when you try to work in them.

You don’t need a backup headlamp — your backup light source can be a tiny (but bright) Photon or Streamlight micro-light. 

• I am a firm believer in having a backup light source and at 0.9 ounces all in (i.e. with battery), the Petzl e+lite is about as lightweight as you can get and still have some good features (different light levels, red light for night vision, etc.).  The fact that it can also serve as a backup headlamp is a nice bonus just in case.

Zip Loc bags and a couple of trash bags are nice for gear if you don’t want to carry/buy all those dry bags.

• Completely agree with you on this one.  Ziploc bags and trash bags work great for those that don’t want to, or can’t, spend the money on the fancy dyneema stuff.  I use the dyneema bags because they last.  I can use them trip after trip versus replacing ziploc bags and trash bags each time.  I also just love the dyneema fabric, so I am a bit of a sucker for it.  Expensive stuff, but I have the money to afford them, so I figured why not.  For scouts, I would definitely recommend sticking with ziploc bags and trash bags.  Spend the money elsewhere.

Throw a plastic whistle in your kit and I think you are good to go. 

• The Gossamer gear backpack I use has one attached.  However, excellent point.  All hikers should check to see if their pack comes with one attached (usually the chest strap buckle has a whistle integrated in to it).  If it doesn’t have one, make sure you add one to your gear list.

Hi Rob,

It looks like a great list.

Don’t know if it will help or not, but I thought I’d share with you my 2 cents:

Regarding clothing, the last time I went to Philmont (2014), I was rather content with two long sleeved shirts (OR Echo) and two convertible pants. I’m a long pants/shirt guy, and am always comfortable hiking this way, rain or shine. I always wore short length Dirty Girl-ish gaiters 100% of the time. Between that, a Tilley hat, and OR Chroma fingerless gloves, I never needed sunscreen or other gloves  that I “might” us. This last trip, we were in the Valle for half the time – which had us bushwacking a bunch). Pants were practically a requirement. The fingerless gloves are awesome. They kept my hands from blistering & burning, and I wore them all the time.

I also brought a pair of Dynamo wind pants on the off-chance of rain. I figured that if it were really pouring, I could throw those on, let them take the brunt of the foul weather, and they’d dry out 15 minutes after the rain left. (I also had a poncho). Even if they soak through, I’ve never had any issue with them during summer backpacking trips.

Sleeping: Regarding the Axl Air, I’d recommend bringing a 1/8″ ccf pad along. A CCF is great for pulling out and sitting on whenever you have a break, and it will help keep you much warmer than the AXL alone. Having good ground insulation can offset the need for a warmer sleeping bag, in my experience. And since your using a quilt, I believe it’s even more crucial. On my 2014 trip, I used a 10oz EE 50d Egnima quit, an 1/8″ CCF, and an Xlite (total of 27oz.) That, plus a Cap 4 hoodie & silk underwear, and I slept very well the entire trip. One night I threw on a down vest, cuz it was a little chilly.

Lighting: given the crew situation I was in, I was fine bringing two or three Photon micro lights, (with clips for my hat.) There was probably 10,000 lumens of headlighting out of the crew combined.

Coconut oil: I highly recommend bribing a small container of it. Great for chafing, skin moisturizer, add it to food, etc….

Hope this helps!

Matt

This last trip, we were in the Valle for half the time – which had us bushwacking a bunch). Pants were practically a requirement.

• Excellent point in regards to the Valle.  If you are doing a trek that heads that far north, then a set of zip-offs (at a minimum) would be a requirement.  I haven’t been up there in a few years, so forgot about that part.  I was close in 2014, but we only crossed over a little.  In 2015, 2016, and 2017, we were in central country.  This summer we are going south country.

Regarding the Axl Air, I’d recommend bringing a 1/8″ ccf pad along. A CCF is great for pulling out and sitting on whenever you have a break, and it will help keep you much warmer than the AXL alone. Having good ground insulation can offset the need for a warmer sleeping bag, in my experience. And since your using a quilt, I believe it’s even more crucial.

• I have been going back and forth between my new AXL and my old trusty SLX pads this spring depending on the weather at night.  The AXL does well for anything above about 40 degrees.  Much below that and I switch to the SLX.
• My Gossamer Gear pack has a removable SitLight pad in it.  On one colder night I added that to my AXL and it added just a touch extra warmth, which was nice.
• My Zpacks bag is actually not setup as a quilt.  It is more like a regular sleeping bag.  When I ordered it, I had to request this configuration as a custom (no extra charge, just longer wait time).  They now offer the sleeping bag thing as an option on their website.  So, the 20 degree bag works well with the AXL, until you drop down into the 30’s.  For Philmont, given that we always seem to go during the warmer times, and as long as I stay south or central, I think I will take the AXL.  If I head north, I will probably just default to my SLX just in case.

@rwparker35:

Thanks. This is great info since I’ve got my eye on a trip with my son in 2020. I’d like to know, please, how are you able to carry a Triplex tent? Aren’t you required to carry one of the MSR tents that is provided?

“Aren’t you required to carry one of the MSR tents that is provided?”

Nope, not at all.

Whatever shelter you use, it basically needs a floor. So the Triplex will certainly work just fine. My last trip I used a TT Rainshadow II. The time before that: Moss Starlet. And then in ’88: North Face Junebug.

Haha, Matt beat me to it.

So, yes, as long as it has a floor and isn’t a bivy sack or a hammock, you should be good to go.  Philmont tends to not prefer single tents as having a separate tent for each person increases your overall footprint and there is some logic in the whole safety in numbers argument.  They tend to be a little more relaxed on leaders having a single and sometimes an odd number of people and youth protection rules may dictate that one or more singles are used.

Since I started this thread, I have actually dropped my personal dry weight down to about 12.5 pounds.  Mainly due to switching to a quilt style sleeping bag, using a plexamid instead of my triplex, and some general advances in available gear.  I am heading out this year on two treks, one summer and one autumn.  Though, for the autumn trek, I will be around 15.5 pounds as I will need a much warmer sleeping bag, pad, etc.  During our autumn trek last year it got down to 12 degrees F with lots of wind and snow!

@namelessway

Thanks. I see that in the literature now. Also, the OP listed a down jacket. Is that approved? Doesn’t read that way to me but I don’t know how strict they break down and check each participants pack. Plus, I obviously wouldn’t want to be disrespectful.

Yes, down is just fine.  So, feel free to use a down jacket, sleeping bag, etc.

They tend to recommend synthetics for scouts, or those adults that may be less experienced, as you need to use caution not to get the down wet.  With the advances to hydro-phobic down and better water resistant shell materials, this risk as decreased somewhat.  However, you still need to know what you are doing.  This is why synthetic insulation may be a better bet for scouts and less experienced adults.  Plus, synthetic insulation is typically much cheaper.

@rwparker35: Thanks again and I’ll be following along on these threads for updates. I think I might be able to get a 10-12# base weight with my setup depending on a few factors. I further get that the apprehension about down. I estimate that I  am an expert compared to many so I’ll be fine.

Feel free to send me a private message if you have additional questions, or post them up here so everyone can use the info, either way works for me.

In regard to the down jacket, in the summer I will use my Mountain Hardwear Ghost Whisperer Hooded Jacket (7.7 ounces in a size medium).  In the autumn I will switch to my Feather Friends Eos Hooded Jacket (10.5 ounces in a size medium).

I also use a wind shell in my layering system and that has allowed me to be very flexible with the changing temps (elevation, weather, etc.) throughout the day.  My layering system consists of a lightweight synthetic t-shirt, a wind shell, a down jacket, and then a rain shell.  I mix and match those layers as needed.  For the wind shell, I use the new tachyon parka from montbell.  Weighs about 2.7 ounces for a medium, but is actually pretty breathable for a wind shell.

I do have updated excel gear lists (one for summer and one for autumn).  If you want me to email them to you just send me a private message with your email.

I think some people give the impression that a synthetic bag or jacket still works great when the insulation is wet.  They don’t.  They lose a great deal of insulating ability when wet, too.

You have to be just as careful to keep a synthetic bag dry as you do with down.

I think the best advantage to a synthetic bag over a down one is the dry time. If your bag gets wet you can dry a synthetic one much faster than a down one, probably in one day with good sun and a breeze.

For just $1300-ish you too could have a 7 lbs base weight

https://www.reddit.com/r/Ultralight/comments/b6yyzr/2019_gear_video_7lbs_bpw_full_comfort/