PCT Pack Size (With a 10.3 lb base weight)?

So you believe that the Mariposa or Gorilla will have superior breathability than the Circuit?

More like “was hoping”, heh.

A pack with an external frame and a trampoline panel is your only hope of a less sweaty back.

Personally as an expert sweater I never seen the big deal as I sweat all over. You should have kept the Circuit unless you were uncomfortable with the fit of it.

I am biased though having owned a Circuit, and now a v.1 Ohm and a Custom CDT.

I would go 60-65 liter, allowing food and water supplies to vary as needed and freeing you of the chore of a super tight packing procedure every morning. You can use the “cloud” system of packing, allowing everything to fill in the gaps rather than using compression sacks and other tedious means of getting it all into a smaller pack. Consider how many times you are going to pack and unpack your gear. Bear cans loom large in my list of packing challenges.

The Mariposa does have side loops to allow some line compression straps to be added to help compress the pack when gear/food volume is low. The egg-crate foam back pad gives some ventilation over a flat fabric panel and doubles as sit pad and/or extension for a short sleep pad. All the big outside pockets make for easy access on the trail– you’re going to be walking all day and getting stuff out for breaks. I see having pack pockets as the “trail office”.

You’re argument is logical and the way I was leaning Dale – your input is greatly appreciated! The Mariposa is clearly a good choice, but the Arc Haul is just so damn sexy! As if that wasn’t a tough enough choice I’m now considering the Helios as well. *tears out remaining hair*.

Aubrey, I’m certain that you are aware that your comment was far from helpful, yes?

I think Aubrey’s question was a fair one.

I’d say it’s rather obvious that I do/did not know either way, thus part of the reason I started this thread. That said, in my opinion her reply comes across as very sarcastic.

My experience in the hot and humid mid Atlantic region is:

that if I sweat less with ventilated back panels – it’s not by much…

I think the trampoline back panel packs work pretty good when there is a medium-strong breeze.  When it’s not breezy, the mesh just sticks my shirt to my back and I don’t feel any cooler and my shirt doesn’t seem to stay any drier than when wearing a pack with the 1/8″ thick “3-D” padded mesh back.

I have better luck with packs that just don’t touch your back over as much surface area.

Check out the Dueter or McHale websites for examples.

But in the end, I have sweat running down my back and soaking the top of my shorts in a couple of hours.  Of course, it’s running down my face and arms too — it’s just hot out, and I’m working hard ;)

Forgot to comment on pack size.

I think 35-40 liters would work OK except for a few areas.  And you can always put “overflow” items into a stuff sack and strap that across the top of your pack for those sections.

If properly packed and with your base weight, the design of the Gorilla negates the need for load lifters. Owning one, I can attest to that being true. The pack is narrow and shallow (depth from back, not height of the pack) so the load remains “high and tight”. I used to obsess over the Arc packs due to the ventilation but loved the Gorilla otherwise. Then…I came across a few threads mentioning the Thermarest Ridgerest Classic as a replacement to the stock Sitlight pad. What a world of difference that made. The ridged foam basically imitates the backpanel on my Osprey Raptor (mountain biking) and is enough to keep me from looking at any other pack. The ridgerest is also more rigid so it makes the pack much more stable at higher loads as it provides more frame. The small pad is only $15 on Amazon so a cheap mod and you could even test it out on your Mariposa before buying another pack. If you like it, then you could either keep the Mariposa or pick up the Gorilla and use the pad there instead since they use the same size pad. The ridgerest cuts down so easily just using basic kitchen scissors.

@Hoosier T : I was actually debating the effect swapping out the sit light pad for something like a foam Thermarest would have on the Gorilla/Mariposa this morning, so your post couldn’t have come at a better time! As luck would have it I also have a Raptor for riding/day hiking, so this is also very helpful information.

Outdoorgearlabs.com reviewed the Gorilla recently, and came up with interesting findings as to total pack volume – it was higher than Gossamer Gear lists. G.G. lists it at 40L, but OGL found it holds “minus hip belt, shoulder pockets, and removable lids”. Pretty fantastic that they underrate their packs, IMO.

So I guess it’s settled then, I’m going to give the Gorilla a go and swap the sit light out, as per your suggestion Hoosier T. By chance could you attest to how it carries with the maximum load of 30 lbs (or more)? The water carries in So Cal and the bear can requirements in the Sierras will most definitely push that weight, so it is a concern.

@ John G – Thanks for the input on the trampoline vs. 3D mesh, very helpful as well. I think with that information and other things I’ve read/experienced the trampoline suspension would be nice, but the channeled foam/3D mesh combo, and less back contact is probably also a very viable option.

Honestly, I haven’t had the Gorilla very long at all so I have not had the chance to test it at higher loads. However, I do use two layers of the ridgerest and it seems to me, at 25 lbs (winter load), to be much better than the stock pad. I didn’t like the feel of the Ridgerest folded over to achieve the two-layer backpanel so I ended up just cutting it in half and stacking them. Since I do a lot of MYOG, I own a kamsnap snap tool so I cut two pieces of 2″ grosgrain, put snaps on both ends of each, then put snaps right through the pad and essentially attached them along the long edge using at the top and bottom. Sounds confusing but I would be glad to throw a picture up when I get home if you’re interested in using two layers. Anyways, I did this because I liked the rigidity of two pads, I wanted a bigger sit pad, and most importantly, I liked the idea of having a 20″ x 21″ (stock pad is 10″ x 21″ for a large size pack so two pieces makes it 20 x 21 when removed and joined at the edge with the snaps) piece to put under the torso of my air pad for extra insulation when it’s cold. Since it just uses snaps, I can always unsnap it and just take one layer if need be. Sorry I couldn’t help more on the load question.

You say you will carry up to 35 lbs. None of the packs discussed, except the Arc, are rated by their manufacturers to carry more than 30. The Arc says 35lbs max. My experience with these kinds of packs is the makers are overly optimistic.

I have used suspended mesh panel packs (Kelty externals and a Dueter) and they don’t make much of a difference in sweat discomfort, IMO.

@ Nick Gatel – I believe the Mariposa is rated to 35lbs, while the Gorilla is 30. The arc blast, like you mentioned, is rated to 35 and the Haul To 40. However this is the biggest area of concern – how these packs carry their maximum (and likely optimistic) weight.

Two other packs I’ve been considering are the Katabatic Helios 55 and the Exped Lightning 60. Both are significantly heavier than the aforementioned packs, but have more robust (much more robust in the lightning’s case) suspension and load carrying ability. Even with the Lightning, my base weight would only bump up to right at 11lbs, so now I’m strongly considering these two. Especially given that they both have great compression systems.

@ Hoosier T – I think I grasp the concept of what you’re saying, and it sounds like it would potentially improve the heavier weight carrying comfort if only slightly. A photo would be great, thanks!

Sounds like you have figured out that less is not more. Sure, someone can suffer through a day or two of a load that exceeds a packs capacity for comfort. Also, we read about thru hikers that head out for the next section with 35 lbs in a frameless pack. I have done multi-month trips, and after a few weeks you become so trail fit that pain and discomfort are easy to bear.

If you look at a 1 lb pack vs a 4 lb pack for an average male carrying 33 lbs total, the overall difference as a percentage of the weight our legs are supporting it is only 2.3%.

Get a pack with a robust frame, look for stays made from 7075-T6 aluminum.

Remember the utmost critical success factor is fit.

@Nick Gatel – Indeed, sir.

Thanks to your link, I have had the dawning comprehension that you are that Nick – from Popupbackpacker.com. I have to say, it’s an honor. You’re site is chock full of fantastic, real world, information, and iced with delightful sarcastic wit.

That said, I believe I was falling into the trap of both over and under thinking this pack. Over, because I was beginning to let weight be the defining factor to “keep my base weight” in the ten pound range. Under, well we’ve already discussed that, now haven’t we?

All in all the best decision I’ve made, with regards to backpacking, on the interwebs has been joining Backpacking Light. While I’ve found some great information on sites such as yours, it’s a constant filtering process to find the truth – both in averages and what applies to my own unique needs. This is a superb community and I anticipate being a member from here on out.

My thanks to you Nick and all the other outstanding contributors to this fine site (and your own)!

John

I’ll plug the Helios!

for me, it’s the best carrying pack I’ve ever had, including my custom made Zimmerbuilt!  I really like the design of the hip belt and the straps, and the frame is just about perfect.

@jenmitol – Actually Jen, it was your write up about the Helios that really turned me on to it – and consequently purchasing one for myself! Everything about this pack seems to be fit exactly what I was looking for, including the hip belt, straps, and back pad/frame. I can’t recall now, but did you get yours in the hybrid cuben material? I fairly certain that’s the option I’ll be going with, at this point.

I did also consider the Zimmerbuilts, but the Helios ticks all the boxes so well that I don’t think a custom pack will be necessary if lives up to it’s reputation – no pressure, Jen! ;)

I’ll have remember to post up here after I receive mine and get some miles on it to let you know how my experience with it compares to your own. Thanks for your advice and fantastic write up, Jen – you rock!

I had a similar dilemma last year and went up going for an MLD Prophet with the Klymit upgrade; took all my gear and a Bearikade Weekender easily enough, together with five days food. My stuff would rattle around in anything bigger and I like a smaller pack – a hangover from my climbing days I think.