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Patagonia Airshed Pullover Review


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Home Forums Campfire Editor’s Roundtable Patagonia Airshed Pullover Review

Viewing 25 posts - 26 through 50 (of 86 total)
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  • #3452012
    Mike M
    BPL Member

    @mtwarden

    Locale: Montana

    no idea on conversion, but even the most “breathable” rain jackets are in the decimals of under 1, not anywhere near “windshirts”

    #3452033
    Dale Wambaugh
    BPL Member

    @dwambaugh

    Locale: Pacific Northwest

    MVTR has to do with vapor transmission (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moisture_vapor_transmission_rate). As Mike said, any air permeability would be a tiny fraction in CFM (cubic feet per minute) and basically zero.

    Windshirts are very light shirts rather than “jackets,” preventing heat loss from convection and enough DWR to shed light precipitation. If breathable enough, they can be used for sun and bug protection.

    How do I use a windshirt? As a light layer over my base layer when I’m too cold without. I might put it on when starting out and unzip it if getting too warm and finally taking it off if the sun has broken out or come over the ridge in the morning. It¬†goes back on when my activity level drops,¬†like a¬†shady forest traverse or downhill section.¬†On a cool gray day I may have it on all day. If colder, it becomes the “cap” for my mid-layer fleece, which has good wicking and insulation qualities, but little or no wind protection. Worn while active, I can wear base/mid/wind layers in cold conditions, like snow shoeing at 15F. I can wear the windshirt around camp and when I am drying my base layer. IMHO, a windshirt and poncho make¬†a perfect combination. My windshirt and poncho are 11 ounces total, vs a typical 12-16oz 2.5 layer rain shell

     

    The beneficial qualities are light weight and wind blocking. On the level of the Airshed, a Supplex nylon shirt would provide about the same wind protection, but at 200-300% the weight, increased bulk and usually button front vs a zipper. The windshirt has better DWR and will dry faster than the Supplex shirt too. The Supplex shirt is certainly more durable and you can roll the sleeves up, which would be a great intermediate feature when wearing a windshirt if they would make cuffs that would allow it.

     

    Adding a hood to a windshirt moves it a notch closer to a jacket and gives that much more wind, bug, sun and rain protection for a small amount of weight. Comparing windshirts to rain gear is as useless as comparing button front shirts to rain gear and windshirts should never be considered a rain gear replacement. The rain shell should always take precedent if you must go with only one of the two, which is exactly why a windshirt  should be as light as possible.

    Comparing the windshirt/fleece combo to a 60g or thin down jacket, the windshirt can be worn in several combinations, basically a 3-in-1 jacket and the components can be worn¬†for active use. The combination may be heavier than the lightly insulated jackets, but is much more versatile. Fine fiber and down fill requires less breathable shell fabrics and there are two layers of that tightly woven fabric, making them useless for all but low activity¬†and¬†then they don’t provide enough insulation for the weight and IMHO are weak one trick ponies. That’s where the Nano¬†Air is something new and different, but you wouldn’t find me wearing it for aerobic activities above say 20f and it wouldn’t be warm enough for a sub 20f bivouac.¬†Properly designed, a¬†loftier jacket varies only by the¬†extra fill. When it gets wet, the fleece and windshirt will dance circles around a light down jacket as it has about the same loft but can still wick and transfer perspiration where the down just gets worse. Three days out with no sun and 45f 90% humidity conditions and you have goose flavored oatmeal for insulation.

    #3452048
    Richard Nisley
    BPL Member

    @richard295

    Locale: San Francisco Bay Area

    This original post was deleted by BPL.

    Ross,
    LUL eVent specified MVTR value of 30,000 g/m2 and the LUL Micro10 specified MVTR value of 27,000 g/m2 are meaningless big numbers without specifying which specific standard was used for each number and the specific options used under that standard.
    The air permeability for eVent is ~.5 CFM. The amount of air permeability is directly proportional to the amount of water vapor that can be passed through a fabric. The air permeability for the pre-2013 Houdini is ~35 CFM or 35/.5 = 70x eVent. The air permeability for the 2017 Houdini is ~3.5/.5 = 7x eVent.
    Wikipedia says in part” “…Numerous standard methods are described in ISO, ASTM, BS, DIN etc., — these are quite often industry-specific… The search for the most appropriate instrument is a zealous task which is in itself part of the measurement… The conditions under which the measurement is made has a considerable influence on the result. Both the temperature of and humidity gradient across the sample need to be measured, controlled and recorded with the result. An MVTR result without specifying these conditions is almost meaningless. Certainly no two results should be compared unless the conditions are known.”

    #3452049
    Ross Bleakney
    BPL Member

    @rossbleakney

    Locale: Cascades

    <i>Comparing windshirts to rain gear is as useless as comparing button front shirts to rain gear </i>

    Nonsense. Everything else you said makes sense, and anyone with any experience with windshirts and rain jackets knows all that (I own several of both). But they obviously overlap. I’ve used rain jackets to protect myself from wind, for example. That is very common, and plenty of people do that, as a means to save some weight or money (since you need to carry a rain jacket just in case it rains). Of course it isn’t very breathable, but if you are just sitting on top of a mountain, then lack of breathability is no big deal.

    Likewise with bug shirts. A rain jacket makes for a very effective bug shirt, but it can be extremely warm.

    It is only that third use — the “in between” use, if you will — where most rain jackets struggle to compete with a wind shirt. Under moderate to heavy exertion, you are likely to get too clammy — you might as well put on your jacket. Of course, as mentioned, this wind shirt may be the other extreme for that purpose. If you are under very low exertion (walking slowly down hill, checking out the scenery or taking pictures) then this may be too breathable. It may not offer much in the way of warmth, and you may end up having to put on a jacket anyway.

    Anyway, that is neither here nor there. I simply asked whether there are any MVTR numbers for windshirts, or CFM numbers for rain jackets (not what each measurement means).

    #3452050
    Ross Bleakney
    BPL Member

    @rossbleakney

    Locale: Cascades

    Thanks Richard. I guess I need to take a lot of the MVTR measurements with a grain of salt. That’s a shame, since relying on reviews is very hard. But if they are fabrics are similar to Event, then it doesn’t matter much when comparing it to a wind shirt when it comes to breathability.

    #3452083
    Stumphges
    BPL Member

    @stumphges

    Surprised someone with a gear review oriented blog hasn’t got hold of the equipment and begun publishing CFM and MVTR (or RET or whatever) for all the major fabrics out there.

    #3454519
    Jerry Cagle
    BPL Member

    @xclimber

    Locale: Southwest

    Isn’t a “breathable wind-shirt” an oxymoron…?

    #3454530
    Dale Wambaugh
    BPL Member

    @dwambaugh

    Locale: Pacific Northwest

    Not at all. If you don’t want breathability (for active use) any rain shell will do.

    #3454534
    Mike M
    BPL Member

    @mtwarden

    Locale: Montana

    large garbage sack works pretty well for those looking for 0 breathability too :)

    #3455427
    Adam Klags
    BPL Member

    @klags

    Locale: Northeast USA

    Hmmm, just realized I said earlier in this thread that the jacket was slightly less breathable than a boreas… that was a mistake, I meant to write MORE breathable… can’t seem to edit it now.

    Anyway, the rest of my comment should make that clear anyway, but just in case, and for the sake of accuracy, I wanted to just say that here.

    Meanwhile, I’ve continued to use this thing and I still love it. Absolutely fantastic. Just need a lighter color now…

    #3478583
    Brad Rogers
    BPL Member

    @mocs123

    Locale: Southeast Tennessee

    Two new colors available, though perhaps not better ones.  Black and Royal Blue.

    #3478591
    Matthew / BPL
    Moderator

    @matthewkphx

    I saw the new colors at a Patagonia store a couple weeks ago. They are definitely not ideal but they are much less fugly than before.

    I wish they’d release it in a nice light grey. The fabric really does have a nice stretch and does really well on the coffee filter test.

    #3478594
    Ross Bleakney
    BPL Member

    @rossbleakney

    Locale: Cascades

    I don’t care if they are ugly, I want them to be reasonably cool in the sun. Light grey — or simply white — would be great. I will likely pick one up as a bug shirt. This will also reduce the need for sunscreen.

    Do they have any plans on releasing wind pants made out of a similar material?

    #3491759
    KRS
    BPL Member

    @krshome

    Locale: Virginia USA

    As of today i’m onboard with the Airshed wind shirt. I also would like a hooded version of this and a light color like light grey or white. I would also like to see a florescent orange color added. It seem that i use the wind shirt the most when people are running around in the woods with guns. Im still learning the applications of the wind shirt for backpacking on the East Coast but its definitely a part of my clothing kit now. Where the Airshed would really shine for me though is mountain biking. I would love to have a piece that i could use for all my adventures and this seems to be it with a few refinements.

    #3493743
    obx hiker
    BPL Member

    @obxer

    Stated by Dale up above :(Which post I found to be fair and reasonable)

    The beneficial qualities are light weight and wind blocking. On the level of the Airshed, a Supplex nylon shirt would provide about the same wind protection, but at 200-300% the weight, increased bulk and usually button front vs a zipper. The windshirt has better DWR and will dry faster than the Supplex shirt too. The Supplex shirt is certainly more durable and you can roll the sleeves up, which would be a great intermediate feature when wearing a windshirt if they would make cuffs that would allow it.

    I checked out the Mt. Hardware canyon shirt because I hadn’t recorded the weight of my evidently older version which I found very useful as a combo bug protection/wind block/shade-sunscreen and added warmth layer over a Mt. Hardware wicked lite T during 9 days in the Winds recently in all sorts of weather. In fact the bug shield treated shirt was possibly my most “boy I’m glad I brought this along!” item of gear after the absolute essentials.

    Anyway since I couldn’t handily find the weight and too lazy to get the shirt – go down stairs and weigh it etc. I checked the website and apparently Mt Hardware has released a new version of the Canyon Shirt in a polyester dobby with most of the same features that weighs in at 82 grams.

    Yeah 82 grams. I cross referenced that one and the only other spec that I could readily find was REI and they gave 2.9 oz or 82 grams as well; but knowing them they just read the Mt. Hardware spec. Can this be true?

    This might be a really good sun/bug/wind/warmth layer for warmer conditions and should be really good at transporting moisture produced by high exertion. Comes in a brilliant white and a nice light khaki. Now wonder what is the cfm on polyester dobby?¬† Guess it depends on which polyester dobby. This stuff probably isn’t the 1.6 Dutch is using for hammocks!

    Oh and Adam I’d noticed that as well and figured that must be what you’d¬†intended.

    Double Oh and by the way: What is the “coffee filter test”? Blow through a coffee filter? Is that test Nisley approved ;)

    #3573525
    Brad W
    BPL Member

    @rocko99

    With the high breathability of the Airshed and minimal water resistance, what is the application for this piece?

    #3573526
    Mike M
    BPL Member

    @mtwarden

    Locale: Montana

    very high output activities (running, skate skiing, etc)- if they ever decide to put a hood on one, I’ll more than likely give one a go

    #3573527
    Brad W
    BPL Member

    @rocko99

    Mike-thanks. But what is it offering in those scenarios? It has very high breathability so it won’t add much if any warmth. At best it may protect from a light drizzle? Am I missing something?

    #3573528
    Dale Wambaugh
    BPL Member

    @dwambaugh

    Locale: Pacific Northwest

    I found a new player in the ultra breathable windshirt niche in the Cotopaxi Paray jacket. It is breathable on the level of the Airshed, has a hood, open hand pockets, self showing chest pocket, elastic cuffs and hem. My XL weighs 4.4 ounces, exactly the same as a 2012 Houdini. I recommend going up a size for US sizing.

    #3573532
    Jarred O
    Spectator

    @set7-2

    Brad,

    You’re right in thinking that it will not mitigate water ingress.

    However it does provide benefit. In shoulder season high output scenarios most forms of a fleece provide far too much warmth. At the same time a wind will cut right through a baselayer. Utilizing a jacket like the Airshed or the Alpine Start mitigates wind chill significantly. As an example – on a trip in the Pasayten this past late September an Echo and Alpine Start kept me stable regardless of whether working hard in a valley on the uphill or scrambling on an exposed ridge. The weather was all over the place (snow, light and strong wind, sunny and cloudy) and the daytime temperature swings were 35-55 depending.

    In addition I personally find the Alpine Start to be more effective than a light baselayer (Echo/Cap LW/Interval/etc.) in the summertime. It adds a hood for sun protection, completely repels mosquitoes, and cuts the wind. Thus I can leave the baselayer at home, simplify the clothing worn, and even gain functionality by way of wind, bug and sun resistance.

    That has been my experience. YMMV. After using a windshirt with a high CFM there are few trips, if any, in the past few years where it doesn’t form the basis of my clothing choices. It’s versatile. It works.

    Jarred

    #3573536
    Brad W
    BPL Member

    @rocko99

    Jarred-Thank you. Can you tell me what base layer you would use with the Airshed at 45F, 10mph wind and hiking at a moderate pace? Would you use a lightweight long sleeve(polyester?) base layer for this?

    #3573545
    Mike M
    BPL Member

    @mtwarden

    Locale: Montana

    Mike-thanks. But what is it offering in those scenarios? It has very high breathability so it won’t add much if any warmth. At best it may protect from a light drizzle? Am I missing something?

    oh contraire, it will add significant warmth :)  without overheating- a key in high aerobic activities

    windshirts should be chosen with activity in mind; I have several windshirts- some are more highly water/wind resistant- but less breathable, I wouldn’t choose one of these for when I go trail running- for elk hunting when output is less, but moisture/wind protection is at more of a premium- I would

     

    #3573546
    Ross Bleakney
    BPL Member

    @rossbleakney

    Locale: Cascades

    As Jarred mentioned, a big use is as both bug and sun protection. Other options exist (for both) but tend to be heavier. Even if this was never needed as a means to handle wind, it would still be valuable for those purposes.

    #3573561
    Dale Wambaugh
    BPL Member

    @dwambaugh

    Locale: Pacific Northwest

    It really helps to think “shirt” vs “jacket” when dealing with windshirts. A good 3-4oz UL windshirt will perform the basic functions of a 8-10oz Supplex nylon shirt and possibly adding a hood and a bit of DWR, fast drying, and smaller volume.

    #3573568
    Jarred O
    Spectator

    @set7-2

    Mike,

    I’d be curious to know what windshirts you’re using when hunting. I picked up and then let go a Wild Things shirt (Multicam, ~28-32 CFM if I recall correctly) last fall as I am getting back into hunting with my father after a decade and a half. However this was still too air permeable. My thoughts are that something around ~15 CFM would be better for more stationary pursuits. Is this in line with your experience?

    Brad,

    I’m leery of making a specific recommendation due to how variable individuals are. That said in those conditions: A) if damp and on the cold side of 45 I might bring light grid (Solar Eclipse in my case) or B) if drier and on the warm side of 45 I might bring just a thin synthetic baselayer. Depends on your metabolism and definition of a moderate pace. Again, YMMV. I hope that helps give some context.

    Dale

    And for a great price too considering the cost of alternative and comparable windshirts. Good find – thank you for posting it.

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