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Pad and Quilt Recommendations for the JMT in September
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Home › Forums › Gear Forums › Gear (General) › Pad and Quilt Recommendations for the JMT in September
- This topic has 14 replies, 10 voices, and was last updated 7 years, 4 months ago by Dave B.
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Nov 17, 2016 at 11:25 am #3436033
If my plans come together, I will be solo hiking the John Muir Trail next September. My exact dates will depend on my wilderness permit, which I can’t apply for until March 2017. I am planning to hike the trail over approximately 15 days (approximately 15 miles per day). My previous trips in the Sierras have been in June and July, so I am unsure of what my sleeping temperature needs will be in September, especially in the southern half of the trail (where elevations are higher, and nights colder).
I am trying to find that difficult to line between “light as possible but warm enough to be comfortable.” I am seeking advice now, so that I might be able to take advantage of Black Friday sales.
My shelter will be a Zpacks Hexamid Solo Plus and groundsheet.
For my sleeping pad I have narrowed my choices to either a Thermarest Neo Air Xlite or Xtherm. The Xlite has an R value of 3.2 and the Xtherm has an R value of 5.7. The Xtherm is 3 ounces heavier. I am debating whether the increased R value is worth the additional 3 ounces for the Xtherm.
I need a new sleeping bag anyway, and have decided to go with a quilt instead of a bag to save some weight. While price is always a factor, I have decided to follow “buy once, cry once” philosophy. I think money spent on a comfortable, high quality quilt is money well-spent. So, my decision on which quilt to buy includes value, but I am willing to buy the quilt which is right for me on this trip, even if it’s the most expensive option. This is one area where the most expensive quilt may also be the best value because value includes my ability to get the best night’s sleep possible.
My sleeping clothes will be light weight long underwear top and bottom, socks (or maybe down boots), a fleece hat, and, if necessary, a MH ghost whisperer with hood. I prefer to not wear the ghost whisperer to sleep, but it will be there if I need it. I am a medium sleeper (not really hot or cold), but hate being so cold that it effects my sleep.
I have narrowed my choice to either Katabatic or Enlightened Equipment. I am 6’0″, 170 lbs., and sleep on my side. I believe a 6′ length, wide width in either brand is the best size for me. I don’t appear to NEED the wide, but I think it’s a good idea since I sleep on my side. Correct me if I’m wrong (I like to be wrong if it saves weight)!
I am having two big inner debates: (1) closed foot box vs fully opening quilt, and (2) 30 degree vs 20 degree. In other words, I am debating between the EE Revelation, the EE Enigma, the Katabatic Flex, and the Katabatic Elite (Palisade / Alsek). Within those choices, I am debating between the 30 degree and the 20 degree options.
I am seeking your advice based on your personal experiences. Thanks!!!
-Dave
Nov 17, 2016 at 11:30 am #3436034On my JMT in September, used NeoAir Xlite and JRB Sierra Sniveller. Had a light down jacket (MHW Ghost Whisperer) for in-camp (and in-quilt use if needed).
Nov 17, 2016 at 11:59 am #3436042As a rotisserie-style side sleeper I have always felt a wide quilt is a good idea. I don’t attach my quilt to my pad with straps so the extra couple of inches helps keep the drafts out. The weight difference is not significant, in my opinion.
I’ve only been in the Sierra in June and July. I’d bring a 20° quilt in September unless I was bringing down pants and a fairly warm jacket. I can endure a night or two of cold but I personally wouldn’t risk it over the course of a couple weeks. Shivering sucks.
Nov 17, 2016 at 3:20 pm #3436078On my JMT in September, used NeoAir Xlite and JRB Sierra Sniveller. Had a light down jacket (MHW Ghost Whisperer) for in-camp (and in-quilt use if needed).
Hey Robert,
Thanks for the reply. Did you have any nights where you wished for a warmer bag or a warmer mat, or did you feel that was a good combination for you that time of year? Did you ever have to sleep while wearing your Ghost Whisper in September?
Nov 17, 2016 at 3:23 pm #3436079I’d bring a 20° quilt in September unless I was bringing down pants and a fairly warm jacket. I can endure a night or two of cold but I personally wouldn’t risk it over the course of a couple weeks. Shivering sucks.
I agree, Matthew, the shivering sucks. I still remember a night in Joshua Tree in March, 22 years ago. I remember that night because it was the coldest I’ve ever felt while camping, and I vowed on that night to always bring a warm enough bag. I did not have a warm enough bag that night. I can survive with the wrong sleeping system, but I can’t be comfortable with the wrong system.
Nov 17, 2016 at 3:36 pm #3436080I’d recommend the 20 degree EE. I have had one with the open foot and one with the closed foot. I like them equally. Closed is a little lighter. Go wide.
On the pad, I really find the Xlite comfortable. It will likely be fine for September. I would also bring a 1/8 inch foam pad. It’s really light and also works as a ground sheet and sit pad in camp. It will provide alittle extra insulation in case you need it too.
Nov 17, 2016 at 5:32 pm #3436091Besides the quilt’s temp rating, you’ll be a little warmer in a regular width vs. wide width because with the wide you’ll have extra air space inside that your body needs to keep warm. Regular width will be slightly lighter as well. I am a toss-and-turn sleeper like you and used to have a wide quilt but went to a regular (EE Enigma) and have never felt constrained in it. I too originally thought I would need the wide for rolling around, but for me the extra width was too much. If my sleep style was arms and legs splayed out then I could see the wide, but I haven’t needed the wide just for switching positions.
Nov 17, 2016 at 5:42 pm #3436092My vote is for a wide width and closed footbox 20* quilt. I have a Javan Dempsey but had a Katabatic before they came out with the wide models, and though it was too narrow for me, it was a work of art.
If money is no object, Katabatic is the WM of the quilt world, though I am sure EE is just as functional and a lot less expensive.
It seems that Nunatak is more competitive price wise with the new owners as well if you are looking for another option.
Nov 18, 2016 at 8:23 am #3436172Can anyone who has owned both a Katabatic and Enlightened Equipment quilt speak to the practical differences and real-wold experience? Do you feel the Katabatic was worth the extra cost and the extra weight? I am generally comparing 20 degree Katabatic bags with 10 degree EE bags, because that seems to be more of an “apples to apples” comparison, based on what I have read and published fill weights. Even when comparing those weights, the Katabatic seems to be a little heavier. Do the extra few ounces come with added sleep quality?
Nov 18, 2016 at 10:05 pm #3436342Have you ever slept in a quilt? The reason I ask is you will need to get used to not having the ability to “mummy up” like in a mummy sleeping bag. My personal opinion is that I would spend extra “weight” on a down head/neck covering before I spent it on 10 degrees of quilt rating. You loose most of your heat out of your head/neck, and these areas are not covered my the quilt. My experience in getting used to quilt sleeping is that keeping my face, head and neck covered greatly increases the quality of my sleep. My solution was suggested by someone on here which was to cover my head with a lightweight fleece jacket. But this is definitely not as weight efficient (unless you are bringing one anyway) as the down hood approach.
As far as width goes, I am slightly smaller than you (5’11” and 165#)and have a EE tevelation 30 degree reg length reg width. For me, the width is plenty wide, and I am a side sleeper who turns all night. I use the straps to keep the sides down and drafts minimized. I slept in the snow in the mid 20s with a neoair pad (r-5+) and stayed warm in my EE quilt, but I did supplement it with a costco down blanket. I also don’t mind sleeping in all my clothes, if you don’t want to go there then as people have recommended you should probably go with the 20 degree or lower bag. Be ready to pitch your hexamid down to the the ground if there is wind, as you won’t have much wind protection if it is pitched normally. Fortunately you have the solo plus so you have some flexibility there.
As far as which of the quilts will be better for you, no one here can answer that, in fact you can’t even answer that unless you try both on several trips.
Nov 19, 2016 at 7:30 am #3436365to matts point above, if you decide on a quilt you should really think about additional head insulation … some folks get away with their jacket hood, but for some others thats not enough
there is a bit of a learning curve with quilts…heres a BPL thread this year which shows this quite well …
https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/qulit-questions-temp-and-size-katabatic-gear-flex/
;)
Nov 19, 2016 at 10:07 am #3436378Matt said: Have you ever slept in a quilt? The reason I ask is you will need to get used to not having the ability to “mummy up” like in a mummy sleeping bag. My personal opinion is that I would spend extra “weight” on a down head/neck covering before I spent it on 10 degrees of quilt rating.
Eric said: to matts point above, if you decide on a quilt you should really think about additional head insulation … some folks get away with their jacket hood, but for some others thats not enough
Matt and Eric, Yes, this will be my first quilt. I’m buying the quilt now so that I have plenty of time to use it on shorter trips before my longer September trip to get used to the new system. I hear you about the separate hood. I will be bringing a hooded down jacket and a fleece cap, but will also consider whether I need to add a down hood to the mix.
Nov 19, 2016 at 12:13 pm #3436389I have a Katabatic 40F and an EE 10F. The katabatic has a permanent fixed foot box, while the EE has a zip up foot box with a cinch draw cord at the end. The EE can be opened out as a blanket , and you can put you feet out the end if too hot. If you get cold, it is very easy to zip up again. The katabatic can not be opened, and you would have to pull your feet out if too warm , then get back in later in the night as it cooled down. I find the EE much nicer to use in this regard, and more flexible over a wider temperature range
I always use the side tie downs. The katabatic has cord attachments which come undone too easily, whereas EE has elastic and clips which works perfectly.
My EE is made from lighter fabrics.
Nov 19, 2016 at 1:09 pm #3436395I find the xtherm worth the 3 oz for the substantially more durable bottom as well as the ability to use it on snow and frozen ground. For that time of year I like to use my 32 degree wm bag with a down jacket and down pants. You get warm nights and can get very cold nights and I like to be able to adjust.
Nov 19, 2016 at 3:56 pm #3436409I’ve pretty much narrowed it down to an EE Revelation or Katabatic Flex. Because of the wide range of possible temperatures in September, I think an open foot box on those quilts will serve me better than a sewn foot box. In addition, the open foot box will allow me to still use those quilts on trips in the warmer summer months (I hope). On the EE Revelation, I’m still on the fence as to whether I should go with the 20 degree or the 10 degree quilt. If I go with the Katabatic Flex, I would go with the 22 degree quilt.
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