Qulit Questions? Temp and Size? Katabatic Gear Flex?

It sounds like you really would do well with the EE Revolution (for the open footbox).

It also sounds like you’d be fine with a 30 degree.

I’m not sold on the treated down, and I have the EE Enigma with it.  At this point I’d suggest trying it…it certainly hasn’t been a negative for me, just not sure the positive is there.

I’m a big fan of Katabatic’s packs, and their stuff truly is top notch.  But owning an EE quilt, I just can’t imagine needing to pay more to get more – this thing is a beauty, perfectly stitched, puffs up like air – and mine has A LOT of miles on it.  As a matter of fact, I slept in it last night at my parents’ house!

I really can’t see what Katabatic could offer that is better than my Enigma (or in your case, what would be a Revelation).

My 2 cents.

I can’t answer your questions, but I can put in another good word for EE quilts. Tim is a great guy, and his products are just as awesome. Also, if I am not mistaken, I think their prices may have come down recently too… at least I believe I recall seeing a banner on the site saying so. The only problem I see is that you are wanting it for mid-September, which is like 2 weeks from now… EE currently has a 5+ week shipping date. He has some “ship now” options but I don’t think he has anything you would be looking at in stock… However, it looks like for a 30 Katabatibc Flex, it is also a 3-4 week ship time… If that is the case, I would really suggest looking at the EE. Some specs on the Revelation vs the Flex…

30F Revelation R/R: 10.42 oz 850 down fill  – 16.32 oz total weight  – $240

Flex 30 R/R: 11.8 oz 850 down fill  – 20.1 oz total weight – $365

Yes, the Katabatibc has a little more down fill, and they are both listed as 6′ long and 54″ wide at head & 40″ at the feet, so the Katabatibc would be a hair warmer… So, consider this…

20F Revelation: 13.03 oz 850 down fill  – 19.01 oz total weight  – $255

The 20 F Revelation has more down fill, less total weight, and cost $110 less than the Flex 30, however, it is a couple weeks longer ship time. Also, the straps on the EE are awesome. I have the same set-up, granted, it was DIY, but it works really well.

Saying all that, I am by no means knocking the Katabatic quilt. Just putting the specs out there on similar quilts.

Edit to add: I stand corrected… There are some “in stock” options that would likely fit your needs on the EE site. So it looks like you could get what you needed, and in time, from EE. :)

These are in stock: http://www.enlightenedequipment.com/revelation-850dt-20-f-limited-edition/

Yes, they are 20F and use duck down (EE use goose down only for 900 and 950fp), but if you absolutely need a quilt within 2 weeks, this may be your only option.

Welcome.

I live just south of you and have a Katabatic Alsek 22 (sewn in footbox) as my go to quilt. I’m middle of the road temp wise but I can tell you the Katabatic quilts are absolute flame throwers. The 22 feels like a 10 degree bag/quilt. If I did it all over again I would get the 30 instead. Go 900fp.

I wrote about Katabatic quilts a while back and my thoughts are listed below. It’s unquestionably the finest piece of gear I own. To me it’s worth the extra money.

1. Elastic ribbon on the underside does a great job snugging the quilt in on its own
2. Super thick draft tube on the head/neck is awesome
3. Baffling system seems extremely well thought out and it really holds/maximizes loft
4. Overall quilt shape – They didn’t just taper a rectangle and sew in a footbox
5. Great pad connection system
6. Incredible workmanship (to me, this can’t be overstated. It’s a thing of beauty)

Hope that helps.

I’ll put a plug in for Katabatic quilts. I own a 30* Palisade, and to echo Nick, it is easily the finest piece of gear I own. The pad attachment is the best i’ve seen – it really does a great job at keeping drafts out and staying put all night. The warmth is incredible – you are correct in that Katabatic quilts are conservative in their ratings. I’ve been in the Sierra in mid October and, with proper layers, stayed toasty (I sleep like a furnace and the sewn footbox works for me – slipping a foot out in the middle of the night is no issue). I have a regular length, regular width Palisade and at 6′, the length is perfect. But, I tend to sleep all curled up in the fetal position and wouldn’t mind a little bit of extra room – minor complaint.

I’d say if you want to take your quilt into the fringe seasons, and you are a furnace, the Katabatic will definitely keep you warm. I’m sure an EE quilt will do the same – I just like the fact that Katabatic quilts are always reputed to be warmer than stated, makes me feel a little more comfortable.

I have both he EE 20 and the Katabatic Palisade. You can’t go wrong with either. They are about the same warmth though one is a 20 and the other a 30.

Id get the one you are leaning toward. You’ll always wonder if you don’t.

I have the Katabatic Flex 30 and I also run normal to warmish when I sleep. If you look at their site, the review on the flex 30 is mine. When they rate temp, they are definitely citing a “comfort” temp, not the lowest it’s capable of.

I’ve used it from nights in the high 50’s with it as a blanket to a snowy night in the high 20’s with a well ventilated tent but next to a lake so it was really humid. When it was in the high 20’s I started with pretty much everything I had on (socks, long johns, pants, long sleeve wool mid weight shirt, UL puffy coat, neck gator and beanie) but had to shed the pants and jacket in the middle of the night and slept extremely well.

For the sizing, if you are going to cover your dog I would suggest going with a wide option. It takes a bit longer to heat up when you don’t have the dog on the really cold nights but it gives a lot more width to enclose the dog and not let in too much draft. Works fine to about 40 but lower than that you need a dog that really wants to snuggle in or you will end up cold.

At the risk of shilling my YouTube channel, I recently published a review on the Flex 30. Apologies in advance for the camera work.  I’m not really a pro at it.

Ugh! having a hard time inserting my link.  I’m on YT under the same name.

Thomas, here you go:

Thanks! I’m unsure why I couldn’t post it before.  I’ve never had a problem.

Best part was starting the review in the bag!

Thanks for all your thoughts.  got a tough call to make.

Nick,

What were your reasons for going with the 900 over the 850dt?

The weight savings are very minimal for 900 vs 850dt down. I’d personally go with the water resistant down at this point. Although it’s new technology, it’s really not that new. It’s been around rainwear for a long time. Although the chemicals and stuff are different it’s still a similar concept. Of course, I don’t expect the treatment to last as long as they claim they do but if it helps my quilt dry faster in the morning or last longer on muggy trips without losing loft then it’s worth it.

Besides down garments and bags should only be wash every few years (I still have only washed once or never) most of my down garments so the down treated garments should last a while too

UPDATE:

Thanks again to everyone who has offered advice. I called Kris at Katabatic and he happen to have a Flex 30 in 6’/reg 850Dt on the shelf. So after considering everyone’s advice and the fact the the limited run of EE revolutions had sold out I pulled the trigger on the Flex. Kris was wonderful and got me the quilt in time for my trip this week to Yosemite. The quilt is beautiful, testing at home felt like a warm cloud hovering over me. BUT as is the case with September in the Sierra, I think it was just too cold for it this last week. Temps at Nelson Lake the first night were in the high 20’s and at Townsley lake on night 2 about the same with snow flurries. The first night was miserable. Granted I don’t usually sleep well camping but this was rough. I used a Nemo Astro Lite Insulted 25in pad with a Nemo Elite Fillo, thick merino socks, synthetic NF long johns, a Patagonia merino thermal, montbell flannel, Patagonia down vest, buff and wool beanie and gloves, with the Flex in a TarpTent Contrail. I tossed and turned all night and felt a little tangled up in the cords and had a hard time sealing out the drafts. The draft collar helped, but then the pull cord kept hitting my nose. The second night we camped at 10341′ but not as close to the lake, but still high winds most of the night. That night I wore everything I had on the previous night, but added pants and rain gear. It was better but still really cold. Night 3 we bailed out early and went to the hot springs near Mammoth Lakes. This time I used my buddies Hubba Hubba and had a few extra blankets, still pretty cold. My buddy had a 15 deg Mountain Hardware bag and an arcteryx down hoodie. His girlfriend had an older REI kilo with a Ghost Whisper. He was the only one that was warm. Last night I gave it another try in the house on the pad and slept great, I wanted to give the cord system another try. It worked great, I really like the quilt and want it to work but this trip just might have been too cold. I think with a full down hoodie it would have been a different story. That’s next on my shopping list. I’m also thinking about adding a Sea to Summit liner, there are several models that claim 10-25 deg more warmth for around $60 and 10-14oz. Any one have experience with those? I’m sure the Flex will be great for the summer. I’m going to give it a few more tries and if I’m still not impressed maybe look into a traditional bag like the Western Mountaineering Alpinlite. Any thoughts?

scott …

• you dont have sufficient head insulation … most normal folks who bring a quilt down into the 20s will want some synthetic or down baclava/hat … katabatic/EE/Zpacks sell em … the army found that when adequately insulated in the body (quilt) a bare head (or one with little insulation) is a huge cause of heat loss
• you need the proper nutrition and pre bag warming/fluffing to get everything you can out of the bag … there alot on BPL on this over the years … ill just post the link below

http://andy-kirkpatrick.com/articles/view/maximising_your_bags_warmth

• at a quilts limit you need to cinch it all up properly and use the straps properly … basically you should be looking like the below pic from EE for maximum warmth … notice the lack of gaps, the tightened quilt, the head insulation …
• 

• since you are using a single walled shelter in a windy cold environment, you might be getting airflow in the tent, which is great for reducing condensation, but awful for maximizing the warmth … a double wall shelter with a solid inner would minimize the wind issue and give you a 10F+ boost in interior temps

• im sure some folks will comment on the pad … but according to nemo it falls within the temp range  of your trip … the problem with nemo though is that they dont give any R value for their pads so who really knows … some folks sleep colder (women, thin men) and may need a higher R value

ive posted quite a bit on quilts requiring MORE skill to use than a sleeping bag … many folks think that you can treat it just like a blanket below freezing at the temp limits of the quilt … generally you cant, youll need to cinch it up, use the straps properly, have sufficient headgear and make sure there are no gaps that lead to drafts/heat loss … sleeping bags you just zip em up and cinch em

over the years weve seen many many many posts on BPL/reddit of why folks feel cold in quilts … usually is a skill issue (or lack of proper headgear/pad) … in fact before wider quilts became popular the standard recommendation on BPL was to use a UL bivy with a quilt to minimize drafts

the other caveat is “temperature recommendations” online …. while im sure many of the poster above can take their 30F quilts down to 20F easily … you have to remember that everyone is DIFFERENT, with different metabolisms and skill levels ….

i remember years ago when everyone on BPL swore vocally up and down that the WM summerlite can be brought easily down to the 20s … then we found out it was en-rated to 35F lower limit, and suddenly a whole bunch of BPLers who stayed silent before commented on how they felt cold in the summerlite in the 30s

be wary of well meaning recommendations that push certain products on internet forums … the folks mean well but the premises may not hold true for you (ESPECIALLY packs and shoes)

weve all experienced this over the years and been on both sides of that coin

;)

As Eric says, you definitely need warmer headgear for those temperatures.

I’ll throw this here too since you complained about the draw cord…

<span style=”line-height: 1.8;”>https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/incessantly-annoying-quilt-drawstring-in-face-problem-possible-solution/</span&gt;