Packs.. Thinking out loud

If your total weight carried is less than 20 lbs, then a well-designed and well-fitted frameless makes a lot of sense. I say well designed because 20lbs in my MLD burn feels better than 15lbs in my old frameless (REI flash). At 20 lbs or more, I’ll gladly carry an extra pound of pack (GG Gorilla) for the added comfort and reduced strain on shoulders and back. It all depends on your back and preferences, though, as some folks carry 25 or more lbs frameless and seem to like it.

You can always use the heavier pack for portions of your hike where you’re carrying more weight (like the Sierras on the PCT with bear canister and ice axe) and ship your frameless pack to yourself once you hit warmer weather and carrying less gear (like northern CA and Oregon on the PCT).

I guess what is the definition of frame..A U shape piece of aluminium or carbon..Or that External square tubing on a ruck sacks or those Jansports..To me that is a frame.I fully understand the difference between internal and external frame. As I manufactures put a pcs of foam in and call the frame packs..

Well, this debate has been going on for many years.
Frame: Usually meaning an External Frame
Internal Frame: Usually a hoop, U, or inverted U of some stiffener built into a pack.
Semi-Frameless: Usually a stay or two stiffeners built into a pack (often removable.)
Frameless: Usually just a bag of material that uses internal packing as stiffeners.
Balanced: Front packs and back pack counterweight each other (placing more weight on your shoulders/spine.) Tension provides the same support as a frame.
I discount various odd designs like torso-mounted packs, or, fanny packs. Our general hiking gear is much too large for these. There is also hiking vests which simply is like a fishing vest with larger pockets…sort of like a balanced pack.

Who would thru hike with a frame-less pack? Well, I do. But, no one said a frame was single purpose.

OK, the site buggered up again….FIX IT.

I use a solid foam pad. It is 5 layers of foam, cut and taped together. It fits into pad keepers (like on gossamer gear packs) to solidly mount the top, bottom and 1/3 points on the pad to prevent buckling. It will easily support 20+ pounds in this configuration. With a hip belt and shoulder straps, you can carry about 40 pounds, assuming you can stand anything that heavy. Since it doubles as my sleeping pad, it doesn’t add to my pack system since it is already a member of my sleeping system. DOUBLE DUTY means an automatic weight savings of one item or the other…the heaviest of what you DON’T CARRY. Part of a true UL philosophy.

Again it buggered up……Please FIX THIS!

Anyway, using a couple stays as a tent pole works, but doesn’t save as much. Carrying a spoon only means you use a whittled two pronged stick as a fork. Not to worry, it’s clean enough. Using a spoon as a stake doesn’t work, though. How do you use it in the rain while cooking breakfast under your tarp?

Anyway, you get the idea…

My conclusion is UL frames are not helping as much as we are marketed..I think the key is a Good designed hip belt and maybe load lifters.No science involved as I’m a dummy with a Science background:>)

??Load Lifters?? No. They only adjust poorly fitting shoulder straps. They can often adjust around your shoulder “bump.” But, a hider strap works as well…maybe with a little tailoring.
(edit for spelling)

These are just an example of the gear somebody that thru hikes with a frameless pack is carrying

.John Zahorian.

. LINT .

.HERE is another link for you so you can see an interview with Lint( it starts 8 min 30 sec. into the episode) from Oregon Public Broadcasting, and this is a very good series of articles for BPL by Ryan Linn on hiking the PCT HIKING THROUGH HYPERBOLE: THE VORTEX OF FEAR he used a frameless pack and gives his gear list  for various sections his base weight varied from 9 to 14 pounds depending on the section and what was required.HERE is an example of someone that definitely needs an internal or external framed pack..

I did say maybe on the load lifters, but I disagree a little on the only part..As pack weight increase and decrease a fixed shoulder pack has to do something, sag or ride high or even be ok for a while but they will not reflect sizing due to weight changes and non adjustable..My take but I’m still a Dummy,

If it is sagging, there is a problem. Your hip-belt and shoulder harness should simply pick up extra load…well maybe sag a little, like a half inch or less. That is the whole idea behind any type of frame, to prevent sagging (collapse.) Follow? I have set my shoulder straps at the beginning of a trip. Two weeks later, I still have not needed to adjust them. Hip Belt? Well, I plan on loosing 1/4-1/2 pound per day…I always fiddle with my belt.

If you start out with 5 days of food and start eating it your pack changes..Anyways good discussion.Over and Out..JA

I start with 14 days of food. End with maybe a half days worth, sometimes. My pack fit never changes. That is like saying your spine will change length on a hike. It doesn’t.