Newcomer Looking for Esbit Kit Help

Sorry, I was referring to this former thread

In several field trials, I have found Esbit to be impractical for UL kits. Specific heat density means they get a significant increase over alcohol (about a 14000BTU vs, 10500avg for alkys.) The speed of heat release is slow, however. Typical burns of 12-15min is good for fuel efficiency, but they also have a lot of heat losses away from the heating system, especially in cooler weather.

On one trip, I burned a full 14g cube for about 16 minutes and it never did boil 1 cup of water in calm conditions. Clearly the heat loss, at about 35F, was enough and the water was cold enough (ice crystals in the bag) that it fell something below the minimum heat needed to boil the water.  (Most of my trips, even in summer, always have the possibility of 35F temps. “Snow in July” is possible and have seen it in the ADK’s.)

Rand sent me a cone several years ago, and I tried that. This actually worked to boil 2 cups of water! But even this was slow at about 12min.  I added some rings to the bottom of the pot (a grease pot) and got this down to about 10 minutes, but this was still quite slow. Just as an experiment, I added some fiberglass around the cone and it went down to around 8 minutes. But this wasn’t practical on a trip. I still have a few dozen cubes around… Alcohol really burns much faster at around 5-6minutes to boil.

Anyway, a good cone or tall heat shield is the way to go. A smaller “square” pot (Height and Diameter are about the same) works fairy well like a 650ml AL pot(they absorb heat slightly better.) Titanium should be used as a heat shield since it also insulates against heat. Due to the gunk released by esbit I do not recommend a full heat exchanger on the pot, though. The gunk will interfere with heat absorption somewhat.  Vents, intake and exhaust, should be minimized to prevent heat loss through hot gasses and still insure good combustion.. Use some high temp insulation on the heat shield (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ceramic-Fiber-Insulation-Blanket-Paper-Sheet-for-Wood-Stoves-Inserts-0-3-x-0-6m/182651326989?_trkparms=aid%3D555018%26algo%3DPL.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20131003132420%26meid%3D2f414cede9254331a167df6241c2f0d9%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D8%26sd%3D302755981582%26itm%3D182651326989&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851)

Esbit is good for a solo hiker to warm up/boil 1-2 cups of water. Not too good for cooking. Poor for groups.

I’m not cooking much these days but I have been quite happy with the Toaks 550/Caldera Cone setup that Zelph put together a couple years ago. He makes something similar still but it’s his cone.

I usually am heating more like 1.5 cups of water and I don’t cook in the pot. I get a rolling boil with two 4g tablets stacked on top of each other in a little Ti foil stove I made in moderate temps. If the wind is really blowing or the temperatures are near freezing I might just get to tiny bubbles (fish eyes?) in the pot.

102 grams for the whole kit with a lighter and small spoon. I used it with a freezerbag, boiling water, pouring water in the bag and then I put the bag in the empty pot and lid it. When it’s time to eat I pull the bag over the rim and eat it basically out of the pot. I find this technique more civilized than scraping around in a floppy ziplock.

Another thought, to be taken with a grain of salt since I’m not a level 19 stovewizard:

Go with a Sidewinder Caldera Cone on whatever pot you choose. The efficiency, ease of use and quality of fabrication is wonderful. They just work.

Also James has so much more experience than I do but I prefer Esbit because it’s so easy to ration out and store. It’s compact. I think it’s easier to handle than alcohol with no spilling or leaking.

Thanks for the responses guys. A dexterity condition I have makes alcohol problematic for the reasons you mention Matt.  I would think 1.5 cups would be sufficient in most cases and 102 gm sounds pretty good.  Got a ballpark  on how long it generally takes to bring 1.5 cups to boil with the two 4 gram tabs?

I find the combination of simplicity and lightweight of Esbit very appealing and to make lighting the tabs easier (again, the dexterity thing), i’ve repackaged the cubes individually stacked atop Vaseline soaked cotton balls.

Sorry for getting yet another thread going on this topic.  In the end I hope to find the definitively lightest possible setup that brings 1.5 to 2 cups to boil….or close to boil…in the least amount of time.

“…i’ve repackaged the cubes individually stacked atop Vaseline soaked cotton balls.”

Interesting, I’ve never thought of this.  Does the Vaseline degrade the tabs with time?  This is appealing as it can take a little while to get a tab lit at times.  Or circumvents the need for a lighter.  I imagine this will do the job with just a spark for ignition…

Not sure it’s the lightest option, but I often use a Ti wing stove combined with an Evernew 600 Ti pot and a simple foil windscreen.  Right around 5oz. complete.  Usually my go-to for fastpacking with minimal cooking.  I lack a degree in Stoving so I couldn’t tell you tablet weights (after burn) or boil times; I just know it’ll do a package of ramen with some left over….which is good enough for me.

I’ll add my vote for Trail Designs stoves. I’m very happy using a (non-UL) Sidewinder Ti-Tri plus 900 ml Evernew pot. TD also makes UL-specific bundles like these:

https://www.traildesigns.com/products/evernew-400ml-cup-sidewinder-ti-tri-bundle

https://www.traildesigns.com/products/caldera-keg-gvp-stove-system

And Gossamer Gear has this UL bundle, though it’s rarely in stock:

https://www.gossamergear.com/collections/cooking/products/gvp-ultralight-stove-system

— Rex

“…Does the Vaseline degrade the tabs with time?”

Hmmm.  To tell the truth, I don’t know.  I do the repackage thing just before setting out and have used them for up to 7 days.  Even used one repackaged  (in Al foil…is that a bad thing?) a year later.  Didn’t notice in degradation in the tab but something I’ll pay closer attention to.

I have a significant difficulty handling alcohol as well do to limits to my hand strength and control.  Ordinarily I use a canister stove setup with one of the very light Snow Peak stoves and an MSR titan kettle.  However, I’ve also experimented over the last 12 or so years with Esbit, especially for slow controlled baking or simmering, as well as for situations where canister stoves would be problematic.  I’ve made quite a few wind screens, pot supports and cones myself, and bought several systems from Trail Designs.  I am a stove collector, but I also do use these stoves a lot: I’ve got well over 400 days of cooking on the trail in the last 3 years (AT hiking).  After all the systems I bought and made, I’ve got a favorite that you’ll see mentioned here periodically: the Flat Cat esbit burner with the wind screen.  I use the burner with the ability to either slow bake or to fast heat by turning the burner upside down.  The quality of the baked goods is remarkable, and the baking process leaves no residue on my pan bottom from the Esbit.  The windscreen markedly improves the time to boil, and the quality of the heat transfer.  Because of my  hand’s difficulty lighting the tablets, I’ve sometimes used a tiny bit of Vaseline on the surface and one side of the tablet just before lighting it.  This allows for easy lighting by just putting a flame near by.  I like to keep the tablets packaged until use to mitigate the odor and potential degradation of the tablet.  On occasion I’ve had unwrapped tablets absorb moisture from the often wet environments I frequent.

Renais

Brett, I think a boil takes something on the order of 9 or 11 minutes. It’s not fast.

@renais, interesting insights and very relatable.  Would you be referring to the Focus Fire 14?  The hand-less Toaks 550/Zelph Ti Cone setup looks appealing assuming the cone supports the pot.  I use both hands and a towel to carefully lift the pot off and transfer water to meal.  Stangely, handles present more of a hazard with my hands.

@matthewkphx, that’s about what I get with my current setup.  I typically fire it up and go about other tasks so maybe I’m reaching for some pie in the sky!

Drat!!!  …”handle-less Toaks…”

Brett, I have a very slightly used Toaks 550, no handles, with a ridge and a titanium windscreen/potsupport that you can have, no charge.

Uhhh…wow.  I will certainly take the pot and wind screen but will definitely compensate you!  Any recommendations stove/tray-wise for Esbit?

I just so happen to have a new design esbit tray that’s easy to open and close with one hand. No threads to get crossed or sand getting into threads making the lids difficult to replace like what is found on the Kojin style containers. The container is made into alcohol burners but can be used for esbit also. I also have a smaller container used for the “esbitmiser” design for holding the esbit while burning. I can send them to you also, no charge. You can field test and see it you like them. You can be the first to test them :-)

Dan is approximately the nicest and most helpful guy in stoves.

Actually now that I said that Jon Fong and the fellas at Trail Designs are pretty darn nice too. Why are all the stoves guys so helpful?

LOL!!!  Just awesome!  Sent you a PM Dan.  Many thanks again!

I’ll report back here as to how everything performed as soon as I get a chance to try it out.

I will agree with James Marco on heat loss with ESBIT cooking EXCEPT in the case of a Caldera Cone stove.

The cone design keeps most of the heat inside and literally funnels it up to the dedicated pot. (Pot diameter MUST match the cone top diameter.) I feel there is no other ESBIT stove that is this efficient. (Of course I may not be right but, as my wife often points out, I’m never wrong.)

I use a Sidewinder ti cone with the dedicated 3 cup pot for four season use. And in winter I often use the optional ti Inferno insert that converts it into an efficient gassifier wood burner. The intense heat is why the Inferno and larger Tri-Ti are made with titanium – and are more expensive than the aluminum Caldera Cones. This setup is great for melting snow. It’s very hot and the fuel is free and need not be carried!

The Esbit burner I was referring to above from Fat Cat is the epicurean.  I find that I get a good 50 minute burn when used as heat for baking, and a hot 13-15 minute burn when used for heating water or food.  I’ve also been experimenting with an older esbitmiser I received from Dan, and like the results: I can control the burn fairly well.  The esbitmiser I have from Dan is great for smaller fuel tablets.  I’m starting to explore using a slightly larger tin to both store and burn standard 14 g tablets.  I’m modeling my new attempts on pictures I’ve seen on line from Dan and others of such a tin (no longer available for purchase already fabricated).  So far, I’m impressed with the control one can achieve with such a simple system, and particularly at how clean a burn I can get at slow burn rates.  The tins I’m using are from Amazon: MagnaKoys Silver rectangular Metal tins with slider tops for Crafts, Pills, Geocaching, Survival Gear (5, 2-5/8 inch Tins).  They are easy to drill holes in, and hold two Esbit tablets unwrapped for storage.  Note that two wrapped tablets do fit in the tin as well, but they make it difficult to open and close the lid if they are wrapped.  I like the esbitmiser design because I can store and use tablets with very little volume or weight of supplies.  I’m going to experiment with using the Fat Cat wind screen with the tins as well.

Renais

An easy way to light Esbit tabs is to squirt a couple of drops of alcohol on the top of them , then hit ’em with your Bic lighter.

I’ve done that with hand sanitizer in the past and it seemed to work well.

Renais, the original Esbitmisers that I made and sold here on BPL were of a size that could hold 2 large esbit. They were found to be TOO heavy by BPL standards. :-) A smaller version was made and worked very well for flame control/simmering. I recently ordered more tins but new stock was smaller in dimensions but good for 4 gram tablets. I’ll have those in stock this week.

Add some carbon felt and see what can happen: