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newbie, weekend trip gear report


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  • #3399142
    Sebastian O
    BPL Member

    @loboseb

    I did a mere 24 miles on the AT this weekend. Had a chance to try my mostly new gear and jotted down questions or ways to improve in the future.

    -For water, I had a cheap 2L hydration back with hose. I like the hose easy access and being able to drink while hiking (and I drink lots of water) but what I dont like is the open flabby nature of the hydration pack and opening and closing (big knob in the middle) and cant easily pour water in or out.

    -I was a little baffled, some hikers dont drink and walk simultaneously? I saw all kinds of systems.

    -Perhaps a 1 or 2 L platypus with a hose would be my thing?

    -I was advised here to not use a backpack rain cover and just use a trash compactor bag. So thats what I did. Well, my pack got soaked (the stuff inside was fine but I dont see the upside overall). Maybe I misunderstood the advice.

    -I put my food in a Sea To Summit Sil Dry Sack nice. But an ideal food bag would has more odor blocking (or combo with a second bag?) for half ass quickie hanging on tree (like no rope, whatever branch i can reach because im exhasuted) and….. a bag that is compartmentalized so as not to dig through the bag every time?

    -Definitely some kind of sitting pad next time!

    -Fizan poles…..disappointed, grips so small, made my hands work more and couldnt feel any girthy support in the poles overall.

    #3399184
    Kevin Babione
    BPL Member

    @kbabione

    Locale: Pennsylvania

    A couple of things…

    • I too drink a lot of water while hiking.  I was out two weekends ago and on Saturday I consumed 7 liters of water while the most anyone else drank was 2.  I use a 2L Platy Hoser in my left outside pocket and keep a 1L Platy with a spout in the right pocket for balance.  I usually don’t put more than 1 liter in the hoser at a time, but I might if I know it’s going to be a fair distance between water sources.  I’ve never had any issues pouring water out of my hoser because I drink all the water through the tube.
    • There are both kinds of people here at BPL:  Those who keep the outside of their pack dry with limited protection inside and those who protect everything inside but let the pack get soaked.  I fall into the first category because I find a wet pack to be heavier.  I’m a huge fan of The Packa to serve as my rain jacket and pack cover.  It works particularly well if you use a hydration hose because you can easily drink even if it’s pouring and your pack stays nice and dry.  I typically don’t put my quilts in any kind of stuff sack because I trust the Packa to keep everything dry.  I’ve never had a problem.
    • For a food bag I’ve put each days food in a separate gallon ziploc to make things easier to find but I gave that up since I only open my food bag twice a day (evening and morning – I pull lunch and snacks out when I pack up in the morning).  The only thing that gets double-bagged within my food bag is Gatorade powder (which I premeasure into snack-sized ziplocs).  I might do something different if I go on longer trips, but for 2-3 days it’s never been a problem.
    • A sit pad is nice to have.  I carry a Thermarest Liteseat (3.3 ounces) and it’s really comfortable.  You can go lighter pretty easily, but it’s definitely nice to have.
    • Sorry about your poles…You should be able to sell them here to give you the $$$ to replace them.  Grips are one of those things you won’t really know about until you’ve logged a couple of hours hiking with them.
    #3399197
    Bob Shuff
    BPL Member

    @slbear

    Locale: SoCal

    I also like hydration tubes, but didn’t like filling it, so I switched to SmartWater 1L bottles in the side pockets of my Ohm 2.0, with a small hole in one cap and a tube that I cut from an old hydration bladder and extends to the bottom of the tube.  If the bottle is not upright it will drip out the very small vent hole, but haven’t had an issue with that since it happened once in my car.  I like having the water outside my pack and just move the cap/tube when one is empty.

    Lot’s of people use the Ursack and Opsack for food bags if you are in bear country.  Opsack provides the smell protection.

    I usually carry a Dutchware Gear sit pad, and also use it to insulate my feet in colder weather in my hammock.  It’s not as comfortable as the thermarest, but it’s small and only 19 grams.

    #3399198
    Ryan K
    BPL Member

    @ryan-keane

    I tried hydration bladders, I thought putting my Sawyer mini inline was going to be the bomb.  But I don’t like not knowing exactly how much water I have left, I get tired of biting a valve, and I like to be able to add drink mixes.  So now I just reuse 500mL water bottles or gatorade bottles.  If you want, you can add a sealing top and a straw, and attach it to your shoulder strap.

    I use a trash bag as a second WP barrier, but first I use a poncho to cover the pack if it’s more than sprinkling.  I don’t like a wet pack.

    I think OP sacks are a waste of money.  You either need an ursack, bear canister, camp by bear boxes, or do a good job bear hanging.

    #3399203
    James holden
    BPL Member

    @bearbreeder-2

    you can get cheap rain covers off amazon that cost a few bucks and weight a minimal amount

    ive transitioned to “waterproof” packs for the rain personally

    for a sit pad get a thin torso length pad … 1/8-1/4″ … or use a car sun shade …

    get it torso length so you can use it folded for sitting, and full size for a booster to yr regular pad …

    it also protects airpads somewhat from punctures

    ;)

    #3399205
    Kevin Babione
    BPL Member

    @kbabione

    Locale: Pennsylvania

    One other consideration if you decide to go the pack cover route…In my “pre-Packa” days the only time I had a problem with the stuff in my pack getting wet was during a downpour when I had a pack cover on the pack the entire time.  The outside of my pack was completely dry except where the pack met my back.  The water would run down my back (outside my rain shell) and soak into the pack from that side.

    One last Packa plug…because your backpack straps are underneath the jacket they stay dry too and you don’t have to worry about your straps rubbing off the DWR layer of your expensive rain jacket.

    #3399213
    Lester Moore
    BPL Member

    @satori

    Locale: Olympic Peninsula, WA

    Hope you enjoyed your weekend trip. Short trips like that are perfect for fine tuning your gear and techniques and gaining experience. A few notes on three of your questions:

    • For water storage, the weight savings and simplicity of carrying smartwater bottles (or other light bottles) in the side pockets of a pack is hard to beat. The hydration reservoir thing is convenient, but it only takes a moment to grab a water bottle from the side pocket, drink, and put it back. Side pockets that are angled at the top make it easier to do this without taking off your pack.
    • For rain protection, I like using a light pack liner (compactor bag) along with an even lighter pack cover (modified 20 gal trash bag). If you know it will be rainy, or it’s likely, consider a good hiking umbrella – still prudent to use a pack liner too, but much more comfy hiking in the rain with an umbrella.
    • When hanging food, you’ll want to make a habit of doing it right if you’re in bear country. With practice, it should take just a few minutes to find a good limb and throw the line (slick bear line is best) on the first try. The more you do it, the faster and more accurate you’ll get.
    • As for poles, if you loop your wrists around the poles correctly (like a skier would), then you should not have to use any finger energy to hold them. When pushing down on the pole, your grip can be totally open and relaxed this way, and when picking up a pole to replant, you can just use your thumb and pointing finger for minimal support without squeezing hard. Here’s good thread on the topic with photos:
      https://backpackinglight.com/hiking_poles_technique/
    #3399233
    Sebastian O
    BPL Member

    @loboseb

    Thank you!! Great info, super helpful.

    The Smartwater bottle on side pockets wont work for me bc my pack is not designed in a way to easily grab water from side pockets with pack on my back. But it could work if I attach a hose to one of them.

    @ Kevin B, so any of the Platypuses can take a hose and or a MiniSawyer? Whast the benefit of the Hoser since it cant be se standing up on the floor etc?

     

    #3399237
    Sebastian O
    BPL Member

    @loboseb

    You still need to bring a rain jacket besides the Packa?

    #3399238
    Link .
    BPL Member

    @annapurna

    #3399260
    Sebastian O
    BPL Member

    @loboseb

    thank you Link!

    #3399358
    Sebastian O
    BPL Member

    @loboseb

    I guess the water system is what works for you/me. I saw all kinds this past weekend. Just watched a dozen videos on You Tube.

    So, if you can reach into your side pockets while hiking, a bottle on each side makes sense. Is 1L Smartwater bottle on each side overkill? (2 bottles)….

    Im still not clear on why use the Platypus bags; to store more water beyond water bottles?

    Can you attached a drinking hose to a platypus bag?

     

     

    #3399454
    Sebastian O
    BPL Member

    @loboseb

    Forgot to mention…so my Osprey Atmos 65 pack… I liked the adjustability, its roomy, great outside and top organization pockets, the easy adjustability of the straps, the weight distribution system.

    What I dont like is that well, its not UL, its at 4.5 lbs, and bottle pockets nor anything else is reachable with pack on and sometimes all the straps etc drove me crazy.

    Saw lots of UL packs no Gossamers. I tried a UL pack on someone let me of course I didnt hike in it but my impression was that compared to Osprey there is much less support? Just kind of sits flat on the back….

    Any suggests what lighter pack has the positives I liked of my Osprey?

    #3399463
    Bob Moulder
    BPL Member

    @bobmny10562

    Locale: Westchester County, NY

     Im still not clear on why use the Platypus bags; to store more water beyond water bottles?

    Can you attached a drinking hose to a platypus bag?

    Lots of great information above!

    As you can see, there are different philosophies and personal strategies that people develop over time and after gaining experience ‘on the trail’. It is great to see that you’re out there on the trail testing your gear and observing what others are using.

    Re Platypus water containers, there’s the Hoser hydration system (with attached hose) as mentioned by Kevin B above, and there are the softside water bottles. Photo below has the softside bottle on the left, Hoser on the right:

    The 1 liter softside bottles weigh about 1 oz and the 2 liter Hoser weighs about 3.6 oz

    If you choose to go with a hydration system, it is only necessary to have one Hoser that is complemented with however many softside water containers you might need for the area you’re hiking. In an area where water is abundant or where water sources are reliable and conveniently spaced, fewer containers are needed.

    My personal preference is to use one 20 oz Gatorade bottle where water is plentiful or one 32 oz Gatorade bottle when water sources are not well known or reliable, as well as two 1-liter softside Platys for collecting water for camp at the end of the day, which provides enough water for dinner and breakfast for me and my dog. I like to use two 1-liter Platys because they make it easier to balance the pack by placing them in different areas, and having 2 provides some redundancy in case one of them springs a leak, although I have a couple of them I’ve been using a long time and thus far no leaks. That works for me in my ‘neighborhood’. Somebody whose neighborhood happens to be the desert will of course have a completely different way of doing things because they might have to carry 6, 7 or 8 liters of water at a time.

     

    #3399468
    Sebastian O
    BPL Member

    @loboseb

    Thank you Bob! That was a great explanation, thats pretty much what I was trying to get clear and I like your 2x 1L approach! Im sure Ill keep tweaking with further trips. But definitely, the most practical guy i saw on the AT this weekend, (this guy about to complete Triple Crown when he finishes AT). He just had 2 Powerade bottles (because water sources are plenty on the AT). He also had no stove or pots, and no rain gear but an umbrella instead, no trekking poles, and used a BIg Agnes Fly Creek. Very interesting.

    #3399470
    Bob Moulder
    BPL Member

    @bobmny10562

    Locale: Westchester County, NY

    Any suggests what lighter pack has the positives I liked of my Osprey?

    As an officially certified Zpacks fanboy I would have to recommend an Arc Haul. :^)

    #3399473
    Jennifer Mitol
    Spectator

    @jenmitol

    Locale: In my dreams....

    Yeah, packs are a very, very personal thing.  Many of us have gone through far too many to admit – I personally started with a gregory, went to the atmos, then the Osprey exos,then a GG gorilla, then a ULA circuit, then Zimmerbuilt custom pack #1, Zimmerbuilt custom pack #2, ULA Ohm, ULA CDT, and now I’m very happy with the Katabatic Gear Helios.

    The most important part of the pack is fit – and that is personal.  Like shoes, no one else can tell you which to buy (just their own impressions about how it works for them).  Then comes the other stuff, like live-ability (how easy the pack is to use on a day-to-day basis), weight, features (or lack thereof), etc.

    The reason you felt that the UL pack you tried wasn’t as “sturdy” as yours is partially because the pack itself doesn’t really need to be that sturdy.  In my opinion the Atmos is terribly overbuilt.  And as your pack weight goes down you really don’t need as much structural support in the pack itself.  At your weight you will need a frame – but the basic inverted-U aluminum inserts should be more than adequate for a trip that doesn’t involve carrying a dead animal carcass back to your car.

    I did want to mention something about the rain cover – in a good downpour a pack cover doesn’t really keep your stuff dry either – the water will soak your back and the pack/back interface and that’s where most of the water absorption will happen anyway (the foam in the shoulder straps, hip belt, back, etc).  And if it’s sideways rain?  the cover won’t stay on very well.  Then you have to take it off to get at your stuff, so if your stuff isn’t protected inside, you are going to get everything wet anyway when you take the pack cover off to get your lunch, or your shelter, or whatever.

    And I disagree about not protecting your insulation stuff even with the Packa – what happens if you fall into a creek?  it happens…..

    At this point, I’d highly recommend looking at packs that have a degree of waterproofness/water resistance to them (made of XPac, dyneema X, cuben, etc).  Most of the cottage companies packs are pretty water resistant and won’t soak up very much if everything gets wet.  That Atmos has lots of parts to get wet.

     

    #3399497
    Todd Stough
    BPL Member

    @brewguy

    I’m curious on the pack.  Do you think saving 2 pounds is going to make much of a difference in the hike?  Especially if you find it to be not as comfortable.

    I find $260 to be a lot for a pack and unfortunately many of the recommended packs are even more than that.  Ula is about the same price.

    I have the same water bottle problem with the side pockets.  I think it is due to lack of shoulder flexibility.   My pack is a heavy kelty red cloud.

     

    Thanks.

    #3399511
    Lori P
    BPL Member

    @lori999

    Locale: Central Valley

    Pack covers don’t really work in an honest rainstorm. I use the pack liner and a poncho that covers the backpack.

    There is an article here on Backpacking Light about Opsacks that you should read before trusting them. I never have, and the article clinched it for me. Here in California bears are much smarter and have better noses than people think… better than dogs, and knowing some search dogs has convinced me that we underestimate the nose of a bear, several orders of magnitude keener than a dog’s, by far.

    I also don’t trust an Ursack – and I know people who will hike with them. But there are problems beyond just the super-habituated bear getting food — if they can smell or taste the food through the sack, and they can, even if they don’t rip the sack (they have, in some cases) they won’t leave it alone, and if it’s tied to a green tree (anything else is too easy for the bear to get the sack off the dead tree or log or rock) it’s probable that the bear will damage or kill the tree — which really isn’t LNT, and isn’t fun for you either sitting there watching the bear that won’t be chased away with thrown rocks chew on your stuff. A Bearikade is easier, makes a great seat, and does well in California (unless you’re up Snow Creek trail where the bear tosses it off a cliff, which makes brand moot and makes you not camp there at all).

    I have a Platypus Big Zip (two, actually, one in the day pack and the other in the backpack) and don’t have so many issues. I’m not at all certain what “open, flabby nature” refers to — it goes in the backpack against the pack frame, and that’s where it should be. Mine has ridden there with a bear can and everything else pushing against it for years. I’ve also put the bladder in the very top of the pack lying flat on everything else. You have to have the outlet hose situated so that gravity puts the water into the hose, or it doesn’t work so well. I looked funny tipping myself and the pack to the right once in a while to get water…

    At one point the bladder sprung a leak. I taped it, and it stopped the leak, but only if there were no pressure on the bladder. The Big Zip has a handle at the top, so I just carried it in a hand, switching hands once in a while, for the last four miles to the car. Which was not terrible despite having to carry the trekking poles in my other hand instead of using them. Platypus replaced the bladder under warranty and the new one works great. Unlike so many I really don’t expect what’s essentially a huge Ziploc bag to never develop leaks — but I’ve had one that’s never leaked, despite being jammed in packs for nearly eight years, and the one that did leak was less than a year old and hardly used.

    And that makes the pack liner a really smart thing… because without it, the stuff in the pack would have been wet from the leak. And I’ve also fallen into a high flowing creek while crossing it — that leads to a high country “yard sale” drying everything out, instead of the planned hiking for the day.

     

    #3399512
    Bob Moulder
    BPL Member

    @bobmny10562

    Locale: Westchester County, NY

    If going from a 4.5lb pack to a 1.5lb’er, that’s going to be about 3 lbs, which is a huge amount in UL terms. That is the weight, combined, of my quilt (EE Rev 50, 11.3oz) and air mat (modified Neoair, 10.4oz) and shelter (Duplex, ~24oz incl stakes, cords).

    So yeah, that’s a lot to a Gram Weenie :^). Is it gonna make much of an impression on a young, fit, enthusiastic lad? Probably not, but the physics remains the same, and thousands of extra foot-pounds of work will have been done at the end of the day.

    Of course the pack has to be comfortable as well, and the lighter the load the easier this is to achieve, so the pack must fit the load. Hence the oft-repeated advice to get all the other bits of UL kit figured out first and “Buy the pack last”. Of course, hardly anybody ever does that (I’m guilty!) and even then it’s hardly ever the last pack they’ll buy (see Jen M above!!). Pretty much the same for me, I have 4 Zpacks packs, a MLD Core and an REI Flash 22 day pack, in addition to the REI Flash 62 and Dana Designs Bomb Pack up in the attic. And probably 1 or 2 I forgot, lol.

    #3399575
    Kevin Babione
    BPL Member

    @kbabione

    Locale: Pennsylvania

    Sorry for the delay in posting – that work thing sometimes gets in the way…

    If you have a Packa it will be your rain jacket. It’s basically a rain jacket with awesome pit zips and an integrated pack cover built into the back.  I like the design enough that I own three of them (don’t ask). One of the nicest features of the Packa is that you can have it covering your pack only and then pull on the jacket as you’re hiking if it starts raining. I’ve done that a lot – especially during those annoying days where it rains for 20 minutes and then stops for 20 minutes before starting up again.

    Eddie has a lot of different options for fabrics and sizes now – check it out.

    #3399702
    Nick Gatel
    BPL Member

    @ngatel

    Locale: Southern California

    Sebastian,

    Good for you! Get out there and figure out what works and what doesn’t.

    I have never owned a hydration system. I only drink once an hour or even less frequently (depending on the conditions and terrain). If you walk a couple miles to the post office or supermarket do you need to drink on the way? Backpacking is just walking. Since I drink once an hour it is not a big deal to stop and grab my water bottle or my 1 liter Platypus, which is what I use most of the time these days. Some people don’t like to stop to drink and they have a set up where they can reach their bottles without breaking stride… I never saw the advantage to this, my stops aren’t going to affect my total mileage much, if at all. But some people like to drink while moving, so that is okay for them. Heck, I heard that Andrew Skurka sometimes doesn’t even stop to pee; he pees while hiking. But he does 30+ miles per day and I am not going to do that very often.

    In another post I suggested trying one piece of new gear at a time. The reason for the suggestion is to learn how to integrate all your gear into an efficient system. Often efficiency trumps weight, well at least if you’re not a politician :) For example, and this example isn’t for everyone — I normally use a poncho, so no rain cover or liner is needed. I learned about 40 years ago that pack cover don’t work well and apparently that hasn’t changed. Since I don’t use trekking poles, I don’t need to worry about wet and cold forearms and hands when hiking in cold rain, I keep them under my poncho.

    Sit pad… um. I am 65 years old and have never needed one. Over time I learned how to find comfy boulders, logs, grass, and sand to sit on. Zero weight. However, some folks need sit pads.

    Food bag organization… this takes time. I normally do freezer bag cooking, so each meal is in a freezer bag. All snacks, which are what I eat during the day, are in a separate ZipLoc. Each morning I take out the day’s snacks and put them at the top, inside my pack or stuff them into pockets of my clothing. I never hang my food from a tree, unless bears are a concern, and then I make darn sure it is properly set up. I don’t use odor proof bags in non-bear country, and normally don’t use them in bear country either.

     

     

    #3400858
    Sebastian O
    BPL Member

    @loboseb

    Do you all know if the Mini Sawyer fits Platypus products?

    Also trying to decide between a:

    Platy Big Zip 2L (has hose): 5.6 oz, cant stand it up, but easier to fill

    vs.

    2L PLaty Bottle + add separate Platy Hose: can stand it up on a table, harder to fill, 3.7oz

    thoughts? :)

    #3400864
    James holden
    BPL Member

    @bearbreeder-2

    it doesnt really …

    youll want evernew … or smart bottles … it also fits the standard coke bottle

    ;)

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