Topic

New UL synthetic insulation from Primaloft


Forum Posting

A Membership is required to post in the forums. Login or become a member to post in the member forums!

Home Forums Gear Forums Gear (General) New UL synthetic insulation from Primaloft

Viewing 13 posts - 1 through 13 (of 13 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #3537946
    Eric Blumensaadt
    BPL Member

    @danepacker

    Locale: Mojave Desert

    LL Bean now has a line of sleeping bags using Primaloft Gold “Cross-Core” insulation. This insulation uses the etherial Aero Gel material to get a regular size 20 F. mummy to come in at 1 lb. 15 oz. (OK, OK, most likely at least 2 lb. in the real world.)

    So…

    ->How does Primaloft combine synthetic fibers and Aero Gel?

    ->How well down this new insulation deal with repeated stuffing and unstuffing?

    ->How does Aero Gel handle getting soaking wet?

    ->And has the “Unobtanium” of synthetic insulation finally come to pass?

    #3537952
    Ken Thompson
    BPL Member

    @here

    Locale: Right there
    #3537976
    Richard Nisley
    BPL Member

    @richard295

    Locale: San Francisco Bay Area

    Eric,

    Based on their patent application, WO2017087511A1, we know the following:

    How does Primaloft combine synthetic fibers and Aero Gel? – Scrap aerogel is ground into fine granules and mixed with the liquid polyester used to create the large polyester fibers in the insulation.

    How well does this new insulation deal with repeated stuffing and unstuffing? – They never tested it as part of the patent application. It should theoretically be slightly better than PL Gold because it has a smaller percentage of fine fibers and this is what fails first from compression.

    How does Aero Gel handle getting soaking wet? – This insulation should handle water the same as PL Gold. The same fibers that are siliconized in PL Gold are siliconized in this insulation. The aerogel particles are embedded in polyester and so they can’t fill with water.

    And has the “Unobtanium” of synthetic insulation finally come to pass? – No, PL Gold is .92 clo/oz new and this insulation is 1.16 clo/oz new. All synthetic insulations degrade their clo/oz through use.

    800 FP down is 1.68 clo/oz, and 900+ FP down is 2.53 clo/oz. Down does not degrade through use.

     

     

     

     

    #3537999
    Ken Thompson
    BPL Member

    @here

    Locale: Right there

    Super answer Richard.Thanks.

    #3538021
    Jeff McWilliams
    BPL Member

    @jjmcwill

    Locale: Midwest

    Impressive technical analysis by Richard.

    Thanks!

     

    #3538022
    James Marco
    BPL Member

    @jamesdmarco

    Locale: Finger Lakes

    Thank you, Richard.

    #3538049
    Jerry Adams
    BPL Member

    @retiredjerry

    Locale: Oregon and Washington

    thanks

    I assume it requires more baffles to keep stable like regular gold

    clo/oz/yd2 for down, I don’t know that I’ve seen that before.  I assume that number will go down a bit if you overfill

    #3538054
    Richard Nisley
    BPL Member

    @richard295

    Locale: San Francisco Bay Area

    Down clo/oz will stay approximately the same up to >250% overfill.

    #3538082
    Eric B
    BPL Member

    @eb

    “800 FP down is 1.68 clo/oz, and 900+ FP down is 2.53 clo/oz. Down does not degrade through use.”

    Richard, is there a typo in there, or perhaps I’m missing something? How can a 12.5% increase in fillpower (800 to 900) result in a 50% increase in clo/oz (1.68 to 2.53)?

    #3538129
    Eric Blumensaadt
    BPL Member

    @danepacker

    Locale: Mojave Desert

    Thanks Richard. Very interesting way that Primaloft combined Aerogel with their fibers.

    For synthetic fill I think I’ll stay with Climashield’s iterations. I know it has decent resistance to loft loss from repeated stuffings.

    BTW, I have an EB down 800 fill down vest with Dry Down DWR and an LL Bean -20 F. bag with 750 fill down with Down Tech DWR. What are your thoughts on various down DWR treatments? (i.e. in relation to loft retention in damp situations, not in soaking wet accidents.)

    #3538221
    Richard Nisley
    BPL Member

    @richard295

    Locale: San Francisco Bay Area

    Eric,

    I believe DWR down helps but I have not done any primary research on the various options.

    #3538324
    James Marco
    BPL Member

    @jamesdmarco

    Locale: Finger Lakes

    It seems that the new synthetic does benefit somewhat from the aerogel. A portion of that is because of tighter manufacturing controls. The reduction in weight is always welcome. But, it still does not come close to down in insulating properties, compressibility or longevity. Thanks again, Richard!

    #3538336
    Richard Nisley
    BPL Member

    @richard295

    Locale: San Francisco Bay Area

    Eric B,

    900

    This addresses the range: 900 and higher FP; it is the highest clo/oz that I have seen. In other words, the best possible case, which is rare,

Viewing 13 posts - 1 through 13 (of 13 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
Forum Posting

A Membership is required to post in the forums. Login or become a member to post in the member forums!

Get the Newsletter

Get our free Handbook and Receive our weekly newsletter to see what's new at Backpacking Light!

Gear Research & Discovery Tools


Loading...