New pack – Seek Outside Gila – 3500ci

[Brad Rogers]

Seek Outside has a new pack out that ma be of interest to many on here, the Gila.  It’s a smaller version of the Divide with the same suspension but at a smaller 3500ci volume and thus a little lighter weight at 2lb 10oz.

https://seekoutside.com/gila-3500-ultralight-backpack/

[Brad Rogers]

 

 

[CARLOS C.]

Hmmm any word on pricing yet?

I have a divide and it is quickly becoming my favorite, but to have all the features I love from the divide in the similar layout as my circuit…. may be too tempting to trade my circuit up.

[Brad Rogers]

I have no idea, but I guess it would be less than the Divide.

If you don’t want to sell your Divide, you could always buy just the pack bag only and swap them out.

[Yoyo]

2 lb, 10 oz?  Too heavy in my opinion with the other options out there these days.

[Ken Thompson]

Different tasks, different tools.

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

Interesting. Nice to see the smaller size.

Would be nice if the weight dropped proportionally as well. Appears to be only 2oz lighter than the Divide (42oz vs 44oz) which isn’t much of a reward for ditching 1000 cu in. Perhaps a lighter frame could be designed to match the smaller pack bag.

[Brad Rogers]

It’s about the same weight as the ULA Circuit.

The weight doesn’t go down much as the frame, hipbelt, harness, etc are all the same as on the Divide and Unaweep Fortress, and Brooks packs, so the only weight available to cut is in the pack-bag itself.

 

[Andy H]

What’s driving the weight up so much? The frame? Would love to see a SO pack under 1.5 lbs.

[Brad Rogers]

Here are the actual component weights from my 2015 model Unaweep 4800 in X21:

Frame: 7.0oz

2″ Frame Extensions: 0.6oz

Harness: 8.4oz

Hipbelt (L): 10.4oz

Packbag (slightly trimmed): 17oz

 

I know the newer belts are lighter –  I think my newer belt (dual buckle) is 8.8oz

[CARLOS C.]

Brad I wouldn’t get rid of my Divide. It is my winter and family pack.  If anything I’d lose the Circuit because the Gila would essentially be the same but with the superior harness and waterproof material. Also all the accessories of the divide would carry over I think. I haven’t seen good pictures of the hip belt yet.

[BCap]

Just an observation.  SO seems to be branding itself as durable/comfortable gear maker first and a lightweight gear maker second.  In a different thread they are getting crap for switching to gatekeepers from metal bachelor buckles.  Can you imagine how much of a hit their brand would take if they made a thinner frame and then someone bent it and posted pictures?  Lightweight almost always comes with the tradeoff of requiring more care with/for your gear and that seems somewhat incompatible with their chosen branding.  So my guess is that they don’t see it as a good decision to spend a considerable amount of time and resources to make a more delicate frame that sacrifices their core principles, while still being way heavier than options from UL companies e.g. Zpacks.  Hard to see the market share they’d be getting.

As far as the Gila goes.  Given the extremely modest weight savings for a large change in volume, it isn’t clear to me why I would get the gila (over a divide) unless I knew for a fact that I’d never need a larger pack volume.  My divide cinches down just fine to accommodate smaller loads, and small loads never needed a cadillac suspension anyway.

[Brad Rogers]

The ULA Circuit is the “Ultralite” pack I see the most on the trails so I think there is a market for this type of pack.

Are there lighter options such as the Zpacks Arc Haul, sure, but they are really in different classes as the Arc Haul becomes uncomfortable for many people at pretty low weights (for a framed pack).

While the Unaweep 4800 would still be my “two week trip” or packrafting trip pack, I could see the Gila being my “one week trip” pack, especially with a bear can.

I would love to see a 1.5 or even a 2lb pack from SO, and they might could do that with some tweaks but one advantage they may have currently is everything is modular.  I can use my current frame, harness,and belt off my Unaweep 4800 and just have to buy the Gila pack bag.

It is a modest weight savings over the Divide, but using that logic, the Unaweep 6300 isn’t much more weight.  The weight in these packs is where it counts in the suspension and scaling the pack bags doesn’t effect the weight as much.

[nunatak]

And then there’s the bear canister issue. Not applicable to all of us, but if you do carry one now and then, the Divide is the choice.

I also have the now discontinued Unaweep 3900, and a bear can only go in vertical. Then it requires the packing, stuffing and arranging of small items all around it to make up for lost volume. And in the end it just doesn’t carry 100% satisfactory.

[J-L]

Circuit is listed at 41 oz, but then you can easily drop 5 oz from the pack by getting rid of the removable items. On Seek Outside Gila, you’d also have to add in weight of hipbelt pockets. Then the weight comparison becomes 36 oz for the Circuit vs maybe 44 oz for the Gila. Maybe the Gila can carry more weight more comfortably, but I think the Circuit could still be a better choice for a lot of people.

I’d be more excited if Seek Outside made their packs better for smaller people. Their shoulder harnesses are enormous, and the bolts where the hipbelt connects to the frame are too wide for people with narrower waists

Edit: that blue color on the Gila looks really nice!

[nunatak]

The appealing idea of a true UL Seek Outside pack, as mentioned above, will most likely rest in the hands of crafty MYOG’ers for now.

The frame is, not surprisingly, the foundation for such a project, but it cannot be successfully built with stuff from the hardware store. For other reason too, the best starting point is therefore to obtain a Seek Outside pack and design around the original frame.

One could then copy all the components of the harness with significantly lighter materials, trimming down belt/shoulder strap coverage, foam thicknesses and webbing/hardware gauges. This is where the most weight savings are going to happen. In the process it shouldn’t be too hard to narrow the shoulders a bit, and adjust belt positions, if needed.

The sack itself can be trimmed for heavy notions, but also here starting from scratch is tempting.

Sub 2lbs should be possible.

The only question remaining is if one actually needs the superior carrying capacity of a SO pack in a UL package? The frameless/beltless crowd would strongly disagree. With a 10 lb base weight plus food and water one might start out with 25 lbs, but quickly get lighter.

Will a UL SO pack shine here? Based on my experience I would say yes, thinking it might be the ideal pack… if it wasn’t for the damn bear canister issue.

[CARLOS C.]

@John

Yes you can drop a few ounces here and there on the Circuit to get it lower than the Gila, but the comfort and ability to carry weight over 20 is not even a contest. Not to mention the amount of adjustment and venting you can make with the SO harness.

they have redesigned the harness some and it has cleared many of the issues of smaller individuals. I know it works now for me.

Edit* Just saw the price difference… really 10 dollars? at that price if you are going to have only one pack you may as well have the divide. If SO really wants to dig into the ULA Circuit or other thru hiker packs with the Gila they need to evaluate the cost difference between the Divide and Gila.

[Ken Thompson]

Shroud, lol.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/shroud

Extension collar, whatever, but no shroud.

[Tipi Walter]

David says, “2 lb, 10oz?  Too heavy in my opinion with the other options out there these days.”

Only on BPL would someone make such a comment.  The rest of us in the real world have no problem with such a weight.  And show me a 2 lb 10 oz pack that can haul 50-75 lbs if needed?  (Yes, strap all sorts of stuff on the outside of this pack!).

Question—Since the Divide and the Brooks and the Gila use the same frame/harness—can’t you just buy the bags and change them out?

[BCap]

For context on my last post… I’ve rarely backpacked in places without bear can requirements.  And for reference the divide has two obvious/easy ways I’ve used to carry a full size bear can.  (Shown below.)  And of the two I strongly prefer the inside carry, so losing that would be a negative imo.

 

[Nathan Coleman]

Regarding the discussion on lightening the Gila – weight reduction from where it’s at could come from several areas:

• Frame
• Hipbelt
• Shoulder Harness
• Packbag Material
• Compression (webbing)

The first place you can reduce weight is packbag material.  Going to a cuben decreases weight, increases cost, and decreases durability.  Going to VX07 or similar decreases weight and durability.  Going to a dyneema decreases weight but also removes “waterproof fabric” and requires a rain cover, a huge reduction in functionality.  In general X21 is a good balance of weight, durability, and is waterproof.

The second place I’d look would be shoulder harness.  If you sew the harness directly to the packbag you could save quite a bit of weight, but it won’t be adjustable (more sizes / skus), and it won’t carry heavier loads as well.

Past that you could replace compression straps with cordage & linelocs, at a reduction of functionality.

The hipbelt and frame would be my last resort, as this is where our comfortable carry comes from.  On the frame, the way to reduce weight from 6 oz to 4 oz is to reduce outer diameter, which causes problems in belt attachment, or reduce the wall thickness, which causes a large reduction in durability as well as manufacturing problems.

So, to sum up, we build a comfortable, durable, versatile pack that can handle a lot of different activities and load ranges, and we build it as light as we can without diminishing comfort, durability, or functionality.

Regarding the reason behind the Gila, simply put, people have been asking for a smaller Divide – a lot – and for a long time.  I’ve had a proto for a while now and love it.

[Nathan Coleman]

@Tipi Walter

Question—Since the Divide and the Brooks and the Gila use the same frame/harness—can’t you just buy the bags and change them out?

Yes, loosen bottom frame capture, loosen torso adjustment straps, loosen load lifter straps.  Pull frame, hipbelt, & harness out as one unit, put in other packbag, reverse the strap procedure.

Takes me about two minutes, most of that threading the webbing through ladderlocks.  Very simple.

[Tipi Walter]

BCap—On your first pic, are you using the Y strap provided to hold your bearvault??

I discarded my top Y strap for two parallel straps running over the top of the pack—to hold down the fold loop and to hold bigger items if needed.

Here are the straps going over the top of the pack after ditching the Y strap config.

This shows how the two straps join on the pack body—at the single loop.  Ideally for two top parallel straps you’d have two parallel loops for this attachment.

This is how I made one strap longer—by joining two gatekeepers together.  Now I notice on the SO website they sell longer straps!  Btw, the Y strap is LONG and is used by itself as one of the two parallel straps—the other long strap is the one joined together as pictured.  Crude but serviceable until I get a longer strap.  These 3/4 inch straps are not common in my gear closet! (All my stuff uses 1 inch straps).

[Kevin @ Seek Outside]

Another simple way to save a bunch of weight for lighter loads is to loose the harness and go tumpline. I have done it a couple times with 25 lbs for day.

The rest were mostly mentioned above.

Pricing .. hey we would love to make $250 dollar backpacks however our frame costs a fair amount more which is the bulk.

 

 

[CARLOS C.]

 

@kevin timm

Thanks for clarification on pricing . I can understand the static costs associated with the frame and harness and would honestly not change a thing as Nathan already hit on. I am just surprised that the Gila doesn’t cost much less than the Divide . I would have imagined the simpler pack design and less xpac material would cost less to sew and build when compared to the divide?

 

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