New Pack or Learn to Pack?

What’s your baseweight without food? It’s hard to know what 20# means without knowing if that is one night’s food or ten. The reason I ask is that if you are talking about a pack with four or five nights worth of food you are within spitting distance of perhaps being comfortable with a frameless pack. I made that transition in the last year and have found a GG Kumo and MLD Burn much cooler than my Circuit or Catalyst because they are narrower. Also, they do tend to pack rounder so there is less contact with my back.

I’m currently enjoying my 2016 Kumo and have carried ~21 pounds (including 3.5 days of food in a 2# bear can) in it which was right at the edge of comfort.

Thanks for the response! I doubt I could go frameless most of the time but it’s very intriguing to hear that going “round” does make a difference to heat.

To clarify weight: short answer is base of about 16lbs. Longer answer is it’s tough for me to define “base weight” as the items I carry vary.  I’m a professional photographer and out anywhere from 1-5 nights, 45+ nights a year. Most of my trips are 1-2 nights but I also take 3-6 night trips 3-5 times a year as well. On short trips I tend to bring extra camera gear whereas on longer ones I have a very light kit that’s 3.2lbs with a tripod. Without camera gear, my “base” is 11-13lbs (depending on weather), camera gear is 3.2-5lbs and food is 1.3lbs/day.  This past weekend on a 4 day trip my total was 21.5lbs before water by bringing a heavier DSLR camera and very little clothing.

I should mention that nature photography is not my speciality so I’ve considered reducing my camera load further. However, coming home with great images and selling them creates the opportunity to go into the woods more often in my marital arrangement!

“However, coming home with great images and selling them creates the opportunity to go into the woods more often in my marital arrangement!”  I need to take up photography!

I have done limited trips with my ULA Circuit, and it’s not the hottest pack I’ve used.  I found packs with external pads to be worse.  And I agree a smaller diameter, (like the ULA Ohm 2?) might be better, but they all trap sweat, which can give you a chill when you take a break and remove your pack.  Zpacks Arc packs look really nice on multiple levels, but I too have not been able to spend the $$.  On older trampoline style day packs, I didn’t notice a day-vs-night difference.  If you are hydrating enough and it’s warm you will sweat.

When she gets new art for her office or I sell a piece it’s an automatic additional 5 nights out! Hard part is that beautiful backpacking does not always equal great photography. But every now and then it all comes together!

 I find my Osprey Atmos 35L with trampoline style back to be quite a bit cooler. I’m not actually sure if I sweat less or not but the ventilation seems to allow the sweat to evaporate before it collects and runs down my back and into my shorts. Wet backside is no fun on many levels! If only that pack was 10L larger and 1lb lighter… oh wait, that’s the Exos but it doesn’t fit me!

I’ve never heard of someone purposefully ’rounding’ their backpack (aka barreling) for less sweat. That’s very uncommon and most backpackers try to avoid it. Most either pack loose gear near their backs to compress flat or have some internal/external frame. Barreling will cause your pack to roll side to side which is definitely not what you want.

I have a Circuit and OHM and sweat in both. I just accept it though. My back is pretty wide so I never liked the way either the Osprey or Zpack mesh backs fit. In the short amount of time I owned an exos and arc blast, I didn’t really notice much of a difference cooling wise (and I often backpacking in 90+ degree weather). YMMV.

Thanks Nick! Yeah, it’s something I’ve always avoided but I was looking the Six Moon Designs Fusion 50 (which ULA helped design) and they seem to have purposefully built it to only contact down the center of your back. The Circuit has wide shoulder and belt attachments and with only 20lbs I’m not sure it’s going to flop around too much but it can’t be as stable as being flat.

Interesting what you say about the fit with a wide back. I have a pretty broad back from rock climbing so it seems like I get extra contact. I backcountry ski in the Atmos 35 quite a bit and it breaths great on the climbs which is super important in a winter ski-touring pack as a wet back can be very dangerous. But I’ve never worn it multiple days in the summer so I guess I better consider that before I drop the $ on the Zpack.

My Arc Blast is the most comfortable pack I have owned.

The fact that I really do feel airflow is just a great bonus. The airflow is real.

Besides, on the occasions where I do have to start with a heavy load (ten day trip with canister or winter trip), the frame makes a big difference, probably more than just stays or rigid air cushions.

Just submit, go for it.

haha Cameron, my credit card is still warm from the Triplex that I just bought!

I think part of the problem with backsweat and the Circuit is the spacer mesh lining the back of the pack. Waterproof or WR packs just don’t absorb as much and that seems to help.

You might want to try bending the aluminum stay to keep part of the pack away from your back. I have a Circuit too, and honestly I don’t notice a substantial difference in back sweatiness between it and the Exos I used to have. But I sweat a lot, all the time so maybe it is different for you. I think some of the comfort actually comes from being in contact with most of my back – no pressure points, and it helps keep the pack from sliding down my back (I don’t have much in the way of hips). When my back gets too hot I just loosen the shoulder straps a bit and let the top of the pack fall back a little (it kinda hinges from the hip belt if that makes sense). Then just re-tighten after a few minutes.

Erik, I don’t want to get too detailed about the sweating but to give some idea, it’s like water being poured down the back of my shorts lol. My old Gregory had a mesh back and I would sweat enough to wet the band of my shorts but with this pack I’m absolutely soaked and that’s not a great area to be that soaked as chaffing and general “monkey butt” aren’t great options! It really is the most comfortable pack in every other way I’ve used though so I really want to make it work.

My biggest complaint about any pack I’ve had until a few years ago was how hot and sweaty my back would get from the pack sealing off any airflow and holding all the heat and moisture in. My Arc Blast is my second trampoline suspension pack, and with both I definitely can feel the airflow across my back, makes a big difference.

The Arc packs are relatively taller and narrower than many other packs of similar volume. I happen to like that a lot, just something you should consider in understanding how it carries. Keeps the center of gravity in. I also like having a frame, the newer Arcs should do an even better job of transferring the load from the frame to the hips than mine does.

For the amount of nights you do, I think the price difference between other packs and the Arc could be very justifiable for you. Plus, you can write it off as a business expense.

P.S. beautiful Milky Way shot!

Elemental Horizons Kalais, midway between the Ark’s and Circuit in breathablity but with excellent carry and load capability

Thanks JR! I’m definitely going to try to “barrel” my circuit and see what happens first. Heck, HMG packs are all just barrels and people rave about them so maybe it’s not so bad.  But I really do like your idea of nights/cost=value justification! I will try floating that to my accountant (wife)!

Thanks, I am loving the Milky Way shots lately! Of course I also like a good tent pic too. 

Alex, this is great info! The review of the Kalais got me thinking about the Katabatibc offerings mentioned at the bottom too. I have a flex 30 quilt and it is without a doubt my single favorite piece of kit. Every seem is perfect and it is the most versatile and well designed backpacking item I own. I’ve used it from 25 to 60 degree nights and it’s perfect so I guess I really ought to consider their packs. Not cheap but the back looks like it would breath but not have the complicated system of the Arc packs. Good to have more options!

First, beautiful photo…

…I have an Exos 48 and as far as I can tell its as hated as it is loved by the UL crowd. I happen to be one that gets along very well with it. FWIW the most outstanding thing I noticed on my first trip with it was the air behind the tramp. Man first time I caught a breeze on a hot day from the side it was really nice to feel that evaporative cooling effect. What really sold me on the tramps breathability was simply carrying a solid back pack for a few day hikes in hot weather recently. Having realized that for at least my own likes a tramp is now a must I think of making the move to an arc but to be honest I’m really not so sure it would be all that much better for me. I have tried on an arc pack but haven’t had the chance to hike all day or multiple days with one yet. As my kit is about as shaved down as its gonna get I would really not mind loosing a handful more ounces as they are damn hard to come by now. Time to buy another power ball ticket.

While not the lightest and not the “coolest” I sure do wish the Exos fit me! I even fully checked it out with a seamstress and we couldn’t figure an effective way to shorten the belt short of replacing the whole thing. By the time I do that the cost is pretty darn high!

Anyone try one of the Katabatic packs? While not a trampoline, they look like they’d ventilate reasonably well.

You can try PM’ing bpl member Tom Willard about the Katabatic pack. It seems like it might work for you.

Sounds like the Circuit fits you perfectly.  Anything you do to alter that is going to make it carry weight worse.

Trampoline back panels trade air circulation for worse weight carry.  Some designs (Zpacks) mitigate this by having the gap be adjustable, some by having the frame be way burly (non-AG Atmos), but all of them carry weight worse than the same design would minus gap.  Simple physics.  It does sound Colin like you are one of the rare users whose physiology and locale combine to make backpack venting a need rather than a want.

A more ventilated, but still direct contact, backpanel might split the difference.  Katabatic and Gossamer Gear achieve this differently.  Osprey’s Talon series is another example.

David: without a doubt, the ULA would be absolutely THE perfect pack for me if the back ventilated a bit better. I’ve actually toyed with the idea of tearing out the existing padding and sewing in something more like the Katabatic ventilated padding. I think even 25% better ventilation would be worth the trade off. I live and mostly backpack in the PNW so temps rarely get above the low 80’s but I do push the pace pretty hard so sweat is pretty much always an issue. I have the same issue in winter ski touring and because it’s so dangerous I don’t even consider using a non-trampoline style.  For 95% of people I really don’t think it would be nearly the issue it is for me.

Agreed on the carry worse for trampoline style. My old pack was the Gregory Z55 which carries 35lbs very comfortably… in a straight line! As soon as things get technical or off trail having the weight 4″ off your back isn’t doing any favors. In the winter skiing with the Atmos isn’t the best but I have such a light load on the way down it’s not a big deal.

I have a Katabatic Artemis and used to own a ULA Circuit. For some reason, 3D spacer mesh seems to result in a very warm pack and the Circuit uses a lot of it. The ridged and perforated foam and mesh covering of the Katabatic breathes much better IMO and does not trap as much heat. This is most noticeable for me on the hipbelt and shoulder straps. In hot weather, my back still gets sweaty, so I usually loosen the shoulder straps and load lifters and let the Katabatic hang back 1/2 – 1 inch to create an air gap

My Exped Lightning contacts my back in very few spots, so back ventilation is better than the Katabatic. But I think I still sweat less with the Katabatic, because the lumbar pad and hipbelt on the Lightning gets very warm. I would be interested in trying the upcoming Sierra Designs Flux Capacitor pack, since it seems similar to the Lightning for back ventilation, but with maybe less warm lumbar pad and hipbelt

My experience with the arc blast on a recent ten day trip in sequoia np. First several days between the bear can and ten days of food I could not use the arc feature. Even so the pack shape was somewhat rounded and back sweating was not an issue. Once I ate through most of the food I introduced the arc and gained the full benefit of its function. The climb up trail crest and to Whitney in full son was the most comfortable climb up 3000 feet of elevation I have ever completed.

YMMV

John, Thanks for that! How well does the Katabatic carry compared to the Circuit? I plan on keeping the Circuit for cool weather trips so I can give up a bit of comfort for cooling but not too much. Of course if they are equal in comfort I suppose I’ll only need one.

The Flux Capacitor looks interesting to me for everything other than the “flux” part! I like the feature set and if it was a simple 5ish L expansion I’d probably be more into it as an added feature with little drawbacks but 20L seems like it’s pushing things. As a marketing tool I definitely see the value; I’m a mountain biker and the quest for “The One Bike to Rule Them All” has fueled that industry for years. I’d be willing to wager they will end up settling on a more modest expansion in the future and I applaud SD for pushing things in a new direction. But I digress…

Thanks Matt! That’s what I’ve heard about the Arc too. Though I generally only need 40L of main body capacity for the majority of my trips I’d probably lean to the Arc Haul for the extra 6L of main body purely so I could keep that Arc in the suspension. I’m a bit on the fence about the Arc suspension though as I’m not always super careful in setting down my back especially on off trail scrambles in lava rock (we have a ton of that here). I could launch into a whole soliloquy about how the backpacking industry is overly influenced by the emphasis on non-technical thru-hiking but I’ll stay on topic :) Let’s just say I’m generally pretty gentle on gear but those exposed components don’t give me the warm fuzzies! Awesome customer service doesn’t help a ton with a broken pack 60 miles out on an XC.