May 2, 2019 at 2:10 pm #3591338Jeff McWilliamsBPL Member
3 layer. 5.6oz. Claims that pit zips are not needed due to the breathability of the material.
Would be interesting to see how this compares to the eVent, NeoShell, and the latest from Gore.May 2, 2019 at 3:24 pm #3591355
Interesting. Being ePTFE it sounds like this is a real membrane like GTX or eVent. The patterning actually looks decent too, though I think any rain shell needs pit zips for active use.May 5, 2019 at 1:56 am #3591684Bill in RoswellBPL Member
@roadscrape88Locale: Roswell, GA, USA
Every “breathable” fabric says it doesn’t need pit zips. Remembers REIs eVent jacket several years ago? Neither does anyone else. If you’re going uphill, x-country skiing or snowshoeing you need pit zips. I know cuz I sweat like stuffed pig in an pit!May 5, 2019 at 7:20 am #3591698Gregory SteinBPL Member
@tauneutrinoLocale: Upper Galilee
The mittens look interesting. Very light. Who had experience with this material?Jun 29, 2019 at 12:40 pm #3599890JeremyBPL Member
<p style=”text-align: left;”>Anyone one grab one yet?</p>Jun 29, 2019 at 10:52 pm #3599935
Needs DWR = zero value.
Hard for me to understand how it is that new DWR-reliant rainshells continue to appear in the marketplace when at least two light/ultralight shells exist that are durable enough for backpacking and do not require DWR, and so will not wet out and lose their breathability after 5 minutes of incidental friction.Jun 30, 2019 at 7:25 am #3599989MarkBPL Member
Hood looks like it fits terribly in the video, guy has a huggeeeeeegap on the top of his head
No storm flaps on the zips?
Not really storm proof if it doesn’tJun 30, 2019 at 2:19 pm #3600010bradmacmtBPL Member
two light/ultralight shells exist that are durable enough for backpacking and do not require DWR
Would you care to share which two those would be?
Thanks.Jun 30, 2019 at 2:39 pm #3600017
Columbia Featherweight and Colorado?
Some argue the North Face Hyperair and Arctyrex Norvan SL are durable enough for backpacking.Jul 1, 2019 at 4:03 pm #3600173
Columbia Outdry EX Featherweight and Caldorado, Marmot Phoenix, Montbell Peak Shell, Gore H5 Shakedry, Frogg Toggs UL (aka Dri Ducks).
The Phoenix (~8oz) might be considered too heavy, the new Shakedry stuff (Montbell, Gore) too fragile for off-trail or very long trips. Frogg Toggs is definitely too fragile but nevertheless has been used by many for years (including myself, until switching to the Columbia Featherweight).
Richard Nisley tested the Featherweight’s breathability using conventional methods and found it comparable to eVent. He then tested it using a bespoke method meant to simulate prolonged rain (which can disable a DWR even in the absence of abrasion) and found it better than anything else available at that time (last year). I’m hoping that he’ll be testing the new Shakedry stuff using the same protocol.Jul 1, 2019 at 4:58 pm #3600182
I forgot Mont-Bell had a shakedry jacket – of course it, like the offerings from TNF and Arctyrex state that they are not durable enough for backpacking. I know there are people that have used them for backpacking successfully, but per the manufacturer at least, they are not intended for that activity.
I don’t think the Marmot Phoenix is DWR less, they just state that the DWR is permanent, which until someone has some long term use in one, to me sounds like marketing BS.
I’ve used DriDucks and for what it is, it’s a great option. You just have to have the right expectations going into buying one (limited durability and poor fit).
I have a Featherweight, and it does seem quite waterproof in my limited testing of it, but I’m not sure it’s all that breathable.
The new H5 Shakedry seems like the best option on the market, but I’m yet to talk to anyone I consider unbiased (i.e. isn’t a ambassador etc) that has used one. Hopefully it has the breathability of the running shakedry jackets, which I hear is fantastic.
To tie this back to the OP – It certainly seems like DWR-less rain shells are the future, but we have barely seen the tip of the iceberg there and smaller companies, like EE, certainly don’t have access to that kind of tech. Even major manufactures are still selling 99% DWR based jackets. We are the cutting edge.Jul 1, 2019 at 5:55 pm #3600188Dena KelleyBPL Member
@eagleriverdeeLocale: Eagle River, Alaska
Pitzips are a must for me. It’s not just getting rid of water vapor. It’s just flat out ventilation. Rain jackets are sauna suits when you’re hiking hard.Jul 1, 2019 at 6:32 pm #3600194
Brad, the Montbell Peak and the Gore H5 Shakedry both use a newer, thicker version of the Shakedry fabric than does the Arcteryx Norvan SL and TNF jackets that came out a few years ago. Both are rated for backpack use, but consumers are encouraged by both companies to a)keep pack weight low (not a problem for the lightweight backpacker:), b) wash frequently to prevent build up of oils on the membrane surface (this was required with DWR-reliant jackets too, but for slightly different reasons, c) avoid exposure to high abrasion/tearing forces (maybe best for trails and might be a risk for very long trips where accidents will eventually happen).
Skurka is taking the H5 to Alaska. Will be interesting to hear how it fares. (Is he an ambassador or such for Gore?)Jul 1, 2019 at 7:20 pm #3600212
@stumphges – I didn’t know that Mont-Bell was also using the newer, thicker Shakedry – that’s good to know.
I’m sure Alaska will be a good test. I’ve been there twice and worn a rain jacket a lot there! The brush busting will also wear the DWR off a regular jacket in a couple of hours, so this is a good fit for a DWR-less jacket. That will be a good test of durability.Jul 2, 2019 at 12:21 am #3600276
Hi Brad, Yeah, I’ll hold off on Shakedry until Skurka writes it up, although he did use in Apalachians recently and mentioned wearing it in brush. As you say, brush is the #1 reason to buy a DWR-less shell.
The Columbia Outdry EX Featherweight seems to be the price/durability/brush-capable leader in this category at the moment. Mine is a hell of a lot more durable than the old Dri Ducks:)Oct 30, 2019 at 12:40 am #3616425Hanz BBPL Member
Very happy with my featherweight for what it does, but not cut long enough for coverage of 3 season mid layers. but back to the visp… 75000cfm?!?!? I don’t take EE as a company that makes stuff up. I’d really like to know if someone can confirm this “wind shirt” level of breathability.Oct 30, 2019 at 12:56 am #3616428Tim MarshallBPL Member
the 75000 number is not CFM, it’s MVTR, very different.
-Tim MarshallOct 30, 2019 at 1:23 am #3616432Hanz BBPL Member
Oh yea, I meant MVTR g/m2/24hrs sorry. Um still that’s like 25000 more then vertice ZPacks and previously I think marmot nano membrane was the standard 56000 but I don’t recall any previous 3L above 75000. Very interested to hear from a user. I think future light are around 60k MVTR and 1.0 Cfm. This seems an intriguing product.Oct 30, 2019 at 2:24 am #3616446Matt DirksenBPL Member
@namelesswayLocale: Mid Atlantic
75,000cfm? That’d be a 75-85 mph windshirt!
How cool is that!
:>DFeb 28, 2020 at 9:31 am #3633561JCHBPL Member
Has anyone actually USED a Visp rain jacket? Since the new model addresses the lack-o-pitzips issue, now we need to know if the fabric is worth a darn.Feb 28, 2020 at 11:11 am #3633577Andrew MarshallModerator
@andrewsmarshallLocale: Eastern Sierras by way of the Southern Appalachians
Hey JCH – I have it (and the pants) and am testing it now for an upcoming short BPL review. Short version – I like the fabric but the main strength of this jacket is its superior cut and fit. I think it’s really good.Feb 28, 2020 at 11:14 am #3633578JCHBPL Member
Yeah…but how long will it keep the water out? Multiple days of constant rain?
IOW, it is a viable replacement for a 3L GoreTex rain jacket. Inquiring minds…Feb 28, 2020 at 11:26 am #3633587Andrew MarshallModerator
@andrewsmarshallLocale: Eastern Sierras by way of the Southern Appalachians
Given the type of fabric it is, I think it’s probably better utilized as an ultralight insurance layer for when multiple days of rain are not expected. That being said, I’ll be able to answer the “multiple days of rain” question hopefully after using it in late March in the southeast.Feb 28, 2020 at 1:18 pm #3633601Ben CBPL Member
I’ve been able to give the Featherweight a pretty good test. We planned a 3 day AT trip. It rained HARD with high winds for 2 days solid. We decided there was no fun to be had and got off after 2 days.
The jacket seemed to do really well. There were 6 of us and all the others wetted out pretty early. I stayed relatively dry for the 2 straight days of use. It was cool weather (probably high 30s-low 40s) with wind-driven hard rain. It was a little humid in the jacket, but it fared much better than all the others in pretty rotten conditions.Feb 28, 2020 at 6:14 pm #3633638Richard NisleyBPL Member
@richard295Locale: San Francisco Bay Area
Regarding the other 5 rain jackets wetting out:
Did you hike through any wet brush? If so, how long was it before wet out on the other material types?
If it was just from the sustained hard rain, how long was it before wet out on the other material types?
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