New Big Agnes AXL Pads

“There was a sense of that with this pad.”

I don’t doubt it, I’ve always felt warmness from the pad using my X-therm, I imagine it’s the same with this one. I’ve used the X-therm on snow on a winter Michigan UP trip, temps in the low single digits, with a 1/8″ foam pad underneath and was quite toasty.

Same here. I’ve used the xtherm and foam pad combo in single digit temps and was toasty warm using a 5F Marmot bag.

Temperature Updated????

https://www.bigagnes.com/Insulated-AXL-Air

Hmm interesting, could finally be some kind of response from Big A after so many reviews criticizing the accuracy of the initial temp ratings they gave it…

Rated to 32° – is that “comfortable”, or “survivable”?

It reminds me of the early Valandre temperature ratings.

^^^

per Linda –

“The Insulated AXL air will serve you best at temperatures of 32 degrees and above.

“Big Agnes does not use R Values for sleeping pads as there is not a defined standard among the outdoor industry.”

There IS an industry Standard for the measurement of R-value. Many mat mfrs use it. If BA does not, one has to ask whether they are hiding some poor figures?

In our survey of air mats, found at
https://backpackinglight.com/airmat_sotmr_part1_2011/
https://backpackinglight.com/airmat_sotmr_part2_2011/ (and onwards)
I did find that the BA mats did not have much warmth. Lots of squoosh, but no insulation.

Cheers

“There IS an industry Standard for the measurement of R-value. Many mat mfrs use it. ”

Hi Roger,

Can you please elaborate?

While in the US, ANSI C518 is used for building products, I am currently not aware of any “Industry Standard of measurement that sleeping pad manufacturers use. As far as I know, many of the big manufacturers have come up with their own way of testing pads, none of which are precisely the same.

In particular, (as you certainly know) they don’t take any consideration for the increased pad compression due to side sleeping, which severely impacts the R value.

I have an idea: Given all of the extensive testing you did back in 2011, perhaps the manufacturers can agree to hire YOU to do their testing, and subsequently establish the industry standard. Perhaps BPL could pitch the idea to them? :)

Best,

Matt

The Standard defines what is meant by R-value. This is a matter of heat flow and physics. Whether that definition is used to measure building insulation, fleece fabric or air mats does not matter.

Yes, air mats DO suffer from compression, which can seriously reduce their R-value. To the best of my knowledge, air mat mfrs do not admit or mention this in their advertising.

Fwiiw, I still have the test apparatus. But persuading any mfr to let someone else test their product and to publish the results without any censorship – could be tricky. It is an well-known problem in many industries that negative results tend to be buried.

Cheers

“The Standard defines what is meant by R-value. ”

Ahh  – yes. Of course!

I guess I meant there is no agreed standard method of testing, even though they all use a standard method of measurement, whether its R value, U value, CLO, etc…

Matt

Hi Matt

Please remember: I am a hard-line physicist. I don’t care (too much) exactly what colour your test gear, as long as it produces scientifically-defensible results. This usually sees me clashing with marketeers, who too often do not care about the facts, just the cash flow.

To be sure, there are recognised methods of testing which have been validated many times over, and which are reliable. The guarded hot plate is one such method, and it works with building materials, fleece fabrics and air mats. With air mats you do have to consider thickness as well – fair enough. That was a major feature on our air mat survey in fact.

Do you really care whether the eggs went in before the milk or after – provided the sponge cake is yummy?

Cheers

32 survival/limit, definitely not comfort. I had to return this pad after a very uncomfortable night in the upper 30s.

Temperature Rating is just one of TWO issues the Big Agnes AXL Pads have exhibited. The other is Defective Products ……..deflation and pad breaking down at the “dimple joints”. These are NOT an issue right away, but can occur from 3 to weeks later.

I have had issues with deflation six days into a eleven day packrafting adventure just recently. Returned the pad to REI with no issues, AND ordered another to give the Big Agnes AXL Pad another “go around”,  as the pad is the most comfortable pad I have owned.

Time will tell if I remain a Big Agnes pad fan or NOT!