New Big Agnes AXL Pads

[Andrew F]

Looks like Big Agnes’ new sleeping pads have popped up on their website and as a preorder on REI, curious what everyone thinks of them. Looks like they are marketing it as a thru-hiking pad and the ‘regular mummy’ beats out the NeoAir Xlite on weight by a little over an ounce despite being over an inch thicker (3.75”). I’m eyeing their ‘long/wide’ model, which is non-tapered/rectangular 25×78 and supposedly still weighs just under a pound. Very steep price tag though…

[Katherine .]

gotta love BA for doing wide width/reg length pads! Under a pound for that sounds pretty great. Glad I hadn’t sprung for the SLX yet. Wonder what variable got weight down.

[Paul S.]

There are two big omissions in the specs:

• fabric thickness
• tempurature rating

If the insulated is R 3-something then it’s no lighter than the Xlite for the warmth.

It’s thickness is the advantage over NeoAirs.

[John Mc]

I wish they’d provide an R-value…..  Typically Big Agnes weights are not accurate.

[D M]

Still no r rating…..but here’s the weights.

[D M]

I know this is BA and they are not accurate on weights but going by the past pads that I have anything under a pound for a winter/shoulder season pad is good. I’d have bought one yesterday when I was at REI but I never saw any there and I looked hard. Which is a shame since I am looking right now…they lost a sale.

[Adam Salinger]

No R Value but does say down to 15 degrees…

The second picture is of BA website and shows that the R value of the Insulated Air Core down to 15 degrees would be an R 4.5….

 

 

[D M]

Looks to me like I can save 7 ounces by switching to the comparable pad that I have now, the BA Insulated Q Core SL, 20 x 66 it is 17.35 ounces with no-slip dots of seam sealer. The AXL says 10 ounces!
WHup! Now the site says 10.7 ounces…..

[D M]

Maybe there’s no rating cause they are still deciding…..;-)

 

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

Interesting pad. The weight and thickness look good. Nice to see the antimicrobial treatment.

Looking at the insulated vs. regular versions, the insulation only adds 1oz for the regular sized mummy pad (9.6 oz vs 10.6oz). That’s really light. They are using Primaloft Silver + reflective mylar for the insulation. At just 1oz for this, there must be just a tiny bit of Primaloft Silver. They’re probably using it primarily to lift up the mylar off the bottom to reduce conduction, rather than as insulation itself.

That might be enough to get a similar R-value as a NeoAir with a single reflective layer, without stepping on any patents. Using the insulation to position a reflective layer is a different approach than other companies like Exped, who are using a lot more insulation because they are using the insulation as insulation, rather than as a way to position the reflective mylar. It could be a clever idea if the mylar, glue etc holds up.

Maybe we’ll see a winter version where they do their Primaloft Silver + reflective Mylar on both sides of the pad to increase the R value to 4-5.

[J-L]

There’s some good competition in the lightweight, full-length, “3-season” sleeping pad market now. I can think of:

• Big Agnes AXL Insulated
• Thermarest XLite/XTherm
• Sea To Summit Ultralite Insulated
• Klymit V Ultralite Insulated
• Nemo Tensor
• REI Flash Insulated
• Exped probably has something

All of these pads are in the 10.6 – 15.9oz range. The Big Agnes AXL Insulated seems to be the lightest option somehow, despite being the thickest. The specs on it do look really nice, but 3.75” thickness seems a little excessive. I hope it’s not too narrow.

As for fabric on the AXL pad, Will Rietveld states on his blog that it is 20D with random ripstop:

http://ultralightinsights.blogspot.com/2017/08/outdoor-retailer-summer-market-2017_66.html

[Richie S]

Well I picked one of the insulted versions up with a 30% coupon from REI a few weeks ago and it finally arrived. It is the long wide version.

it came in at 15 7/8 oz for just the pad. 16oz dead including sack and 16 1/4 including a minimal repair kit – so bang on spec.

Inflating it was fine, though the schnozzel doesn’t fit – some sort of o-ring solution may work and should,play nicely with the valve.

easy to deflate and fit back in bag.

Not as crinkly as I expected. Very comfortable. Not sure if the material is as tough as lite, but. More slippery anyway.

 

Can’t tell you much more right now until it is used in anger.

[Eric Osburn]

Hopefully these are more durable than previous BA offerings. I’ve never had a problem with my xtherm but would love a thicker, more comfortable pad.

[Matthew S]

I’m almost 6’2″ and the height of the pad is going to push me more towards the head and foot end of my Duplex. In my opinion a pad doesn’t need to more than 2.5in high, as I never bottom that out, even at my 225lbs. It’s a waste of material and air that your body needs to warm up.

[Roger Caffin]

a pad doesn’t need to more than 2.5in high, as I never bottom that out, even at my 225lbs.
You may not hit the floor, but the thickness of the insulation under you is going to be rather thin at times – and that means cold. If you are only talking about summer use, maybe not a problem. On snow – ooh.

It’s a waste of material and air that your body needs to warm up.
Er – hardly. Utterly negligible amount of material involved, and the air has almost zero thermal mass. Sorry, but.

Cheers

[Matthew S]

Then why is one of the the most widely lauded winter mattresses, the Thermarest Xtherm, 2.5inches thick? I personally have never had an issue with 2.5in in the temps I have camped in.

As for the excess material, I thought on this forum we would be ok with talking about the small details. Minutae though it could be, it’s still excess. Especially when it’s pushing tall-ish people up towards the roof of their shelters.

[Matt Dirksen]

“As for the excess material, I thought on this forum we would be ok with talking about the small details. Minutae though it could be, it’s still excess. Especially when it’s pushing tall-ish people up towards the roof of their shelters.”

Being tall myself, I totally emphasize with the height issue, but I believe Roger is simply implying that air mattresses (or any sleeping pad for that matter) do not require any heat source to keep us warm. The pad is an insulator, not a thermal conductor (generally speaking).

But I do believe that an additional disadvantage of a thicker pad is there is more exposed area of the sides of the pad. This would have the potential of being directly exposed to cold air, which is usually colder than the ground we sleep on. This exposure, combined with inadequate reduction of interior air convection inside of the pad, and you have a compromised insulator.

Regarding R values, since there are too many variables involved, I’m glad BA isn’t trying to publish them. Building insulation products have to go through a huge litany of 3rd party evaluation before they can publish their R values. Since sleeping pad companies like to use R values, then they should be subjected to similar 3rd party testing with real world verification.

Until there’s industry consensus, the numbers are effectively meaningless.

 

 

[Roger Caffin]

Hi Matthew

It might help to read our State of the Market Review of air mats:
https://backpackinglight.com/airmat_sotmr_part1_2011/
https://backpackinglight.com/airmat_sotmr_part2_2011/
It explains some of the issues, and has a lot of individual product reviews in it. And it does list R-values as we measured them – and other ‘small details’ we measured.

If you want the ‘best’ of the winter air mats, have a look at Down Air Mats (DAMs). They have somewhat higher R-values. The down also stops any air circulation within the pad as mentioned by Matt.

Cheers

[Paul S.]

State of the market 2011 is hardly relevant since few of the products are still made.

[Roger Caffin]

Yes, and no.
A lot of the mats are no longer in production, but the principles remain exactly the same. In particular, the idea that the R-value drops when your hips compress one place is something to always remember.

Cheers

[avi sito]

Skurka’s review on it: https://andrewskurka.com/2018/preview-big-agnes-insulated-axl-air-pads-neoair/

[Paul S.]

Hips compressing your mat is an excellent point and one I’ve experienced before.  I just got my hopes up when I saw a SOTM thinking it might be for current pads.  E.g. how you can you still say DAM are better when the XTherm pads didn’t exist yet?

[Roger Caffin]

how you can you still say DAM are better when the XTherm pads didn’t exist yet?
Well, the opinion of users of DAMs is generally that they are a long way ahead of non-DAMs. Taking for example the Exped DAM, it starts off with an R-value of over 9 and a thickness of 70 mm. The Stephensons DAM starts off with an R-value of about 15 and a thickness of 95 mm. The BPL-measured data is all in the SOTM.

While the baffles used in the XTherm pads work moderately well, they don’t compared to down. One would not expect them to.

Cheers

[Eric Osburn]

It would be great to see a new article with current pads. R-value per weight would be interesting to see and I’m curious how some of these new pads like the BA AXL actually do. Articles like that are why I have a lifetime membership to BPL and what drew me to the site in the first place.

[Richie S]

Difficult to tell, but this one actually did “feel” warm. You can generally feel some of your body heat being retained with something like the exped downmat. There was a sense of that with this pad. Not in the least scientific and I’m on the road for work right now so I can’t tell you much more.

[Author]

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