Nov 17, 2018 at 11:13 pm #3564637Steven HallBPL Member
Having a pack made and need to materials advice. Deciding between VX03, VX07, and VX21 and trying to get the lightest bag possible while still maintain durability. Don’t do any bushwacking or anything like that. Anyone able to chime in?
Thanks!Nov 17, 2018 at 11:36 pm #3564638Mark FowlerBPL Member
Don’t get too hung up about the fabric. There is only about 1 sq metre of fabric in a very basic pack. The things that add weight to a pack are the harness, pockets, buckles straps etc. – work on minimising the weight in those.Nov 18, 2018 at 1:20 am #3564646Steven HallBPL Member
Thanks for the advise. Was leaning towards the XV07…that’s durable enough for a pack?Nov 18, 2018 at 2:59 pm #3564703Andrew StevensBPL Member
I have worked with XV07 and I’m not a fan. The material is hard to work with; it rolls up, and doesn’t seem very durable. I really like the new V15. I have made a number of climbing packs with it and it is holding up really well and I’m not even trying to take care of it. I really like the DCF in either the 5.0 or 3.4 but the cost is substantially more, although it probably only adds 10.00 to the cost of the pack.Nov 19, 2018 at 1:58 am #3564775Lester MooreBPL Member
@satoriLocale: Olympic Peninsula, WA
DP recommends extra reinforcement beyond simply bar tacking when working with VX07 (70d fabric). They say the VX21 (210d fabric) will hold bar tacks better. However, based on some mild wear I’ve observed along the X-grid of the VX fabrics in the roll top area, I would choose the V15 (without the X grid, with 150d fabric) for my next pack. Have never used the V15 fabric before, but it should be more similar to the 210d fabric in the VX21 than to the 70d fabric in the VX07. And as Mark said, when comparing 3.5 versus 4.5 oz/yd2 fabrics, the extra bells and whistles add more weight than the fabric you choose.Nov 19, 2018 at 11:10 am #3564818James MarcoBPL Member
@jamesdmarcoLocale: Finger Lakes
“And as Mark said, when comparing 3.5 versus 4.5 oz/yd2 fabrics, the extra bells and whistles add more weight than the fabric you choose.”
Yes, I agree with that! Padding, pockets, buckles, strapping and even thread can all add more than we would like to a pack. While we can minimize the weight, we can never eliminate it. But choosing heavier weight items because “it is only a little more weight” can be a slippery slope. Never loose sight of the light.Nov 19, 2018 at 3:17 pm #3564835Daryl and DarylBPL Member
@lyrad1Locale: Pacific Northwest, USA, Earth
For decades I’ve used 1.9 ounce uncoated ripstop for my backpacks.
I use plastic bags inside the pack for things that need to stay dry. I let water run through everything else.
Uncoated allows me to remove bag and run it through the washer/dryer periodically.
I get some pin holes from use but have never had a structural failure or major rip.Nov 19, 2018 at 6:58 pm #3564862Dan DurstonBPL Member
@dandydanLocale: Canadian Rockies
“VX07 is hard to work with; it rolls up, and doesn’t seem very durable. I really like the new V15. I have made a number of climbing packs with it and it is holding up really well”
The wear tests from DP show that the new V15 isn’t any more abrasion resistant than VX07. They are both rated to 500 cycles on the ASTM 3883 abrasion test. From Hale at DP:
Hale: Neither VX07, the 150d, nor TX07 with 70d, are very abrasion resistant: only about 500 cycles, and we would not recommend any for the bottom of a bag.
Me: Do you have any face fabric material options that are intermediate in durability between 70D and 210D nylon? Something like 150D nylon?
Hale: No. At this time, we only have the 150d polyester, which is not very abrasion resistant.
“Tying to get the lightest bag possible while still maintain durability. Don’t do any bushwacking or anything like that.”
VX07 will suffice if you avoid bushwacking and treat it well. It’s not a tough material – it’s just 70D nylon with mediocre abrasion resistance and poor seams stretch, but good enough for ultralight loads if you treat it well.
If your concern is abrasion resistance (as opposed to seam strength or puncture resistance) then DP/X-Pac offer a cire coating for their materials that roughly doubles the abrasion resistance. I’m not sure why almost no one (besides Revelate Designs) is using it.
If you want a higher performance fabric, something from DP/X-Pac like:
Cire’d 210D nylon + 0.5mil PET
…would blow the doors off VX07 and VX21. That would weigh about the same as VX07 but have about triple the abrasion resistance (roughly double VX21), plus all the seam strength of VX21, but much lighter than VX21 without the X-ply coating and inner 50D polyester.Jul 16, 2019 at 3:09 pm #3602141Doug CoeBPL Member
@sierradougLocale: Bay Area, CA, USA
“…DP/X-Pac offer a cire coating…”
Anyone ever seen this for sale for MYOG quantities? Or any X-Pac without the “X” threads besides V15?Jul 22, 2019 at 3:55 am #3602916Robert AlexanderBPL Member
A cursory web search shows that Pa’lante is using it. Can’t find it anywhere apart from that. Maybe try there? Related: What ever happened to Nathan Meyerson? I believe he had some for sale at one point.Jul 22, 2019 at 6:01 pm #3602984Doug CoeBPL Member
@sierradougLocale: Bay Area, CA, USA
Robert—Thanks for the tip.Jul 22, 2019 at 10:05 pm #3603027Eric BlancheBPL Member
@eblancheLocale: Northeast US
I also was able to find that Burton uses a bag with ls07 and cire finished vx21.
Any more details on this seemingly rare coating/treatment? Where to get it, additional weight gain, etc?
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