My feet are not happy

[Anonymous]

This thread so far revolves around outdoor shoes.  What shoe(s) do you wear at home? Are you a sock n sandal girl?  Crocs?  Barefoot?  There has to be something that fits you.  I haven’t read that you specifically state being diagnosed with morton foot .  However there are numerous shoes when I search.  Even if not diagnosed, maybe check them out.  What about diabetic shoes.  My feet aren’t the best either.  I’ve gone through numerous shoes and boots depending on the occasion, i.e. work or play.  I can never seem to find a proper fit.  Sorry for my beginner-level inquiry but I am curious.

[Daryl and Daryl]

Do you have shoes that keep your feet happy at home?  If so, have you considered wearing  them on the trail?

I say this because a couple of times I’ve worn my street shoes on backpacking trips because I forgot to change into my hiking shoes when I left the car.  No problem.  They worked fine.  I even went cross country and over big boulder fields.

Here’s my typical street shoe: https://www.big5sportinggoods.com/store/details/dr.-scholls-vail-mens-casual-shoes/5355132160056/_/A-6474522;jsessionid=yBidwnjrAOADKDEic_H9lrDTcIK6Ao1p6WNOyOLu

 

[AK Granola]

I hear you, everyone is trying to help, but your point is valid: really the shoe manufacturers are missing a  market. I think it’s a potentially large market, because of the number of blisters, blackened toenails, etc. being reported by hikers. How many shoe threads are there on every single hiking forum or social media venue? Egads.

Like you, in Topos with a replaced sole (like a superfeet one) my big toe hits the top of the shoe. But i do really like Topos anyway, hence my using the silicone toe caps. It works, but it’s not ideal and a lot of monkeying around to prevent a problem. I have a pair of Icebugs, not the kind with cleats, but just regular hiking soles, and those are nice because the mesh on top allows for my toes to wiggle up and down, not just side to side. But – always a but – the mesh also allows in a lot of dirt, so on dusty or sandy trails they’re useless. Even with Dirty girls on, they just let in a crap ton of stuff that irritates my feet after a while, gets stuck in my socks. Too bad, because those things really are comfortable.

When I started doing more backpacking again, after a many year hiatus while raising kids and working all the time, I went through about $1500 worth of shoes, trying them out. I returned a lot of pairs, but often thought a pair was working, wore it a lot and then realized it wasn’t really meeting my need – lots of black toes in that process. I was careful about sizing up too, but while that’s important that was not the issue. I know folks here keep repeating that mantra, but they miss that it’s not length or even width – you’re talking about the vertical space for your toes.

I’ve finally settled for now on two pairs of Salomon’s – a pair of goretex mids for Alaska hiking (much off trail in tough brush), and a pair of Outline Low hiking shoes for trails. The Outlines are too new to really evaluate, so fingers crossed they work better than the topos but no guarantee. I liked Oboz for a while, they have a nice tough sole with a lot of support, but are still lightweight. I may go back to those if the Outlines don’t work. I didn’t do enough miles in them to draw a conclusion, but what I did do avoided toenail and blister problems. They aren’t quick dry though.

Uff da, as they say where I grew up. It’s just an eternal question, finding footwear that really work. Start a new company?

[PaulW]

Diane, just curious, but have you been to a podiatrist yet? Both the podiatrist, and PT I later went to, specialized in sports medicine. You might save yourself a great deal of time, angst, and money with a visit to a doctor.

[Anonymous]

Doc Marten 1460’s with a lugged sole.  Yep.  I said it.  Women’s cut being slimmer than Men’s is the only difference.

[Scott Nelson]

I searched online and found Technica makes a custom trail runner.  A review on Wired talks about them custom molding a hiking boot for the writer.  Their website lists custom trail runners as well.  Mountain and Air in SB is a Technica dealer.  Maybe they could order and customize what you need.

Alpine ski boots have been custom molded for decades now.  If anyone is going to be able to make this available to a larger market, it seems it would be those guys.

Good Luck

Scott

[Diane “Piper” Soini]

So I cut off some of the overlay of these new Topos, and moved the laces up one row and that seemed to help a lot. With thinner insoles and thin socks my big toe seemed okay. I can always cut a little cross in the top for it if it starts giving me trouble.

[Roger Caffin]

Loved the fellrnr article!
But it did seem to me that some of the shoes being modified were down in the D or E width (or even narrower), which is a very silly starting point for someone with 4E width feet (like us). It looks as thought the shoes were bought for appearance rather than fit.

The blisterprevention article was spot on with the comment
“Feet can swell significantly when you’re on them all day, day after day, running or walking. Before you know it, you’re wearing shoes that are two sizes too small for you.”
However, I would argue that if this happens to you, then you really should START with wider/bigger shoes to handle the (quite natural) growth.
Mind you, some of the pictures of cut-away toeboxes in this article really illustrate how stupid some people are, buying shoes that are several full sizes too small for them. Those cases are just insane.

New Balance go up to a 6E width in a few models, which is awful wide. We haven’t needed to go that far, but we both did grow from size 8 E to size 10 4E over the years. And it WAS due to the walking.

Cheers

[Daryl and Daryl]

Roger,

Your latest comments make me think that one is better off starting with shoes that are too big and making them fit by filling up the voids.

Better than starting with shoes that are too tight or get too tight with swelling and trying to make them smaller.

[Roger Caffin]

Yup. One or two pairs of thick Darn Tough Vermont Boot Socks. I use thin liners inside a pair of these as well. Any rubbing is between liners and DTVs. WE do NOT get blisters these days, and we are happy to leave our (wide) joggers on after we have pitched camp.

For snowshoe work, try a size larger again, with 2 pairs of DTVs.

Cheers

[Edward John M]

The old Army way of sizing shoes and boots was to get the feet measured while holding a 20 kilo weight in each hand, this really puts pressure on the feet and replicates a days walking with a pack on. it works well.

[Diane “Piper” Soini]

Daily life shoes: In my daily life I wear a worn out pair of Timps (insoles removed with thin nylon socks and elastic curly laces put on really loose) and Chacos. These Timps, like the others, required some surgery. They are mens. The Chacos are custom ordered wide width. Did you know they make women’s wide? They do!

I also wear Lunas, Bedrocks, and homemade shoes and sandals like this https://shoemakersharon.smugmug.com/Arts-and-Crafts/Sandals/ which I taught myself how to make (they don’t look quite this nice.) I have some Lems. They are really weird. My feet slip around in them a lot. They’re okay for casual wear.

I have never been able to wear women’s shoes. High heels, pumps, whatever. Or Doc Martins. My god those are not foot shaped at all. I dislike flip-flops.

Podiatrist: I have been to a podiatrist for tendonitis and they say my shoes and feet are otherwise fine. I used to have Morton’s neuroma but wearing all these wide shoes has helped.

Wearing larger shoes: I measure a women’s size 7 or just under on a Brannock device and EEEE width but this doesn’t measure the volume or shape of my toes. I cannot put a womens size 7 shoe on my foot to save my life. I wear mens size 8-8.5 (which would correspond to a woman’s 10 or so) and my big toes are not near the end of the shoe but my little toes are. I end up with weird pressure points, blackened nails and lacerations from seams and overlays.

Custom shoes: I have had offers from shoemakers to make custom shoes for me. But they are leather and I have already made leather shoes for myself. Sometimes custom really only means they make them to order using the same pattern they use for everybody. I found that out the hard way. There was a guy in upstate NY or Wisconsin or somewhere who made crazy shoes for people with deformities. I considered giving him a call but he died. His shoes were leather, too. I considered buying some Duck Feet shoes, but those again are leather and they’re pretty expensive and I have no idea if they will fit. They don’t really look that wide anymore.

I am okay to wear off-the-shelf shoes (like my old Timps) in my regular life. In my regular life I sit a lot, I ride a bike, I walk a mile or two (on pavement where there are no foxtails or ball-bearing like dirt to slip and fall on). But when I go hiking is when my shoes reveal their flaws and I get bruised and blackened and lacerated. These shoe manufacturers like Altra have made a good product for people with normal feet who want extra toe room that people like me who need extra toe room flock to because it’s all we’ve got.

My complaint is with the lack of height for your toes, the seams and overlays and whatever it is (the last couple millimeters of width?) that causes injury to my pinky toe. They don’t feel too narrow but obviously something is still not “foot shaped” about them.

For now I guess I will learn to tolerate mutilating brand new shoes right out of the box.

[Jacob]

“Sometimes custom really only means they make them to order using the same pattern they use for everybody”

Yea, terms like made-to-order and custom are thrown around a lot.

Out of everything you have listed I think the only shoe type you haven’t mentioned is a moccasin. Not a shoe with a western style sole and moccasin style, but a true moccasin vamp.

Other than that, maybe try getting more/different socks and hiking in a sandal+ layered sock combo?

[Diane “Piper” Soini]

Here’s how I fixed my new Topos. https://imgur.com/a/R8C2r2t

I am not going to hike in moccasins because that is an impractical solution.

[J-L]

Are those the Topo MT-3? If so, I found them to feel more narrow than the Terraventure 2, mainly due to the lower volume upper.

But if it works, then great! The shoes look really clean that way.

[Roger Caffin]

>> I am not going to hike in moccasins because that is an impractical solution.
Native Americans from the last thousand or so years might disagree with you. But HYOH.

Cheers

[Monty Montana]

I, too, have spent a lot of time and money searching for the perfect shoe in order to avoid black and lost toe nails.  In the process I’ve learned that even though my feet measure size 10, a size 12 shoe solves much of that problem.  The other is the vertical space in an otherwise roomy toe box.  Because everyone recommended superfeet, I always swapped out the original insoles…which effectively reduced the volume, causing injuries; after realizing what was going on I quit doing that and things have been much better!  (Otherwise I wouldn’t be able to wear Altras or Topos.)

Recently I bought a shoe  made by Garmont – the 9.81 – that was on sale at STP or maybe Steep and Cheep, and it has the most vertical space of any shoe I’ve come across to date, not to mention a wide toe box to boot…might just be worth the coin to try them out!

 

[Sam Farrington]

Shoe fitting:  First, I look for a shoe around my size that will hold my heels in place, despite twisting, with no sliding, or worse, rotating.  Then, I see if the shoe will let my toes move about freely, both up and down, and sideways, while keeping the forefoot in place.

Almost no shoes do all of the above, because if the heel is kept in place, the shoe is too small and the toes are too tight for me.  So a custom orthotic is used to keep the heel in place in a larger size shoe.  The best one I got by accident.  First, went to Dr A to get carbon fiber orthotics.  Then went to Dr B, who made some good ones for street shoes, but not for all day backcountry hiking, and especially not for backpacking, even the light sort.  But Dr B sent Dr A’s back for rebuilding per his specs, and they were almost perfect.  Mostly because there was a deep heel cup that kept the heel firmly in place, along with the other mystical things that Dr. B will never divulge.

Then the hunt for shoes that the orthotics fit, but also were roomy enough in the toes.  Keens worked for a while, but then they changed the fit (the last) to make the heels too wide, even with the orthotics.  So after much searching, found Salomons that kept the heels in place with the orthotics in a size that held the forefoot in place but had enough toe space for no rubbing.

A side note  – those shoes with soft cloth above the toes can be murder in rocky terrain.  So another requirement:  the shoes had to be not just roomy, but also firm enough above the feet to protect the tops of the toes.  The big toe protectors on Keens do this, but most other toe protectors do not, and the top of the shoe above the toes must be firm.

Another side note – the feet do change in size, but both ways.  When younger and hiking all the time, they were bigger.  Now they have shrunk, and I take a half size less (in inches, not cm).

Also note that there are different models of the Salomons and other established brands that fit differently.  The real softees are great for walking on country roads and level terrain.  A little more beef is needed for rockpiles.  Salomon calls their soles “chasssis” [Pronounced chassis CHASS-ee (singular) and CHASS-eez (plural)].  Any company like Salomon with long experience and a variety of models would probably be OK to check for your particular fit.  I like Danners, but there is no place in the NE US where I can try a variety of them (my letters to Danner now go unanswered).  Their new very low mid looks tempting, but resist, because have learned that it takes a good selection and a couple hours in the store to see if anything is worthwhile (am not popular with shoe salesmen –  tough turkey).

So if shoes that pass all the above tests cannot be found, the only option is to keep looking.  I went back to custom boots, and it was a waste of a lot of money.  First, they are just too heavy, and I’d gotten to enjoy the freedom of lighter shoes.  (An extra pound on the feet is like umpteen on the bod, or something like that, goes the saying).  Second, no one makes custom shoes any more like the elders of the Limmer tribe used to.  Have heard about custom shoes made on lasts produced by laser measuring of the feet.  Very expensive, and haven’t tried them, but that might be a last resort for some if nothing else works, and there is money in the budget.

Finally, unless the shoes just FEEL good, forget them, even if they pass all the above tests.  Some, for example, cannot hike with WPB shoes because the feet get too clammy.  I use a heavy sock, but not wool, because wet wool is a PITA.  Use Lorpens, a polyester sock made in Canada, that is very tough also and dries much more quickly.  Either way, some added cushioning is a must if hoofing it all day long on rough terrain.  So bring your own sox when trying on hiking shoes.

EMS has been shoved aside by REI in our area, and the choices have gone from good to slim.  An hour and a half’s ride takes one to Kittery Trading Post in ME, which has a fair selection, and Farmway in VT, which does also.  It’s further to Bean’s and Cabelas in ME, and they don’t have as good an inventory – they like to sell the cheap stuff, like Merrells.  Of course, few if any of these places are open in the current shutdown, and even interstate travelling can be a problem if venturing from NH into VT or ME.  A number of folks have been stopped.  No doubt things are similar in other locales.  But would suggest to wait, rather than try to shoe shop with Amazons coming and going in boxes.  Life is too short.

Feet are so different, I don’t know if this will be helpful, but please give me a passing grade for trying.

[Edward John M]

The old New Zealand trick to protecting toes [ which started out as a method to prolong the life of the boots] is to wait until the boots are broken in and comfortable and then to overcoat the toe box area with fibreglass, although today I would use epoxy and carbon fibre being lighter and stronger.

[Author]

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