MSR Hubba Hubba knock off

Looks like every other tent on

https://www.aliexpress.com/premium/Backpacking-tent-.html?d=y&origin=y&catId=0&initiative_id=SB_20200322130208&SearchText=Backpacking%20tent

I’m sure it would be OK, but personally I don’t like the theft of intellectual property.

The price looks great, but how would you feel about it in a storm?  how waterproof is the fabric?  how strong are the poles?  I assume they aren’t DAC or Easton.  If, it’s an occasional use fair weather shelter and you’re OK with the fact that they’ve ripped off someones designs, then go for it.

I wonder . . . did this tent come out of the same factory as makes the Hubba Hubba? Just via a different door. MSR does say that their tent was ‘made overseas’, so you can draw your own conclusions.

That said – it’s a pop-up, like thousands of others. Fine weather, 3-season, keeps the dew and insects off. Just how different can you make one?

Cheers

There are several versions of the MSR Hubba hubba but none of them look exactly like that. So i would think it’s a copy but not one coming out of the same production line.

( I strongly suspect that the manufacturers don’t supply to anyone else tents they make for the major brands)

Here are some of the HH versions

and this is another photo of the Desert Walker tent, should make the difference a bit more obvious

I think MSR is making their tents in Vietnam.  There are no “major” tent makers making tents in the US that I am aware of nowadays, just cottage makers, like Tarptent, Seek Outside, MLD, Z-Packs, Yama, Lighthart gear, etc.

I do agree that it’s a dome tent, the MSR Hubba-Hubba was one of the first major tents I saw with the hub pole structure (and sort of changed the way most dome tents were designed).  I’ve been with a couple of people that had Hubba’s (or Hubba-Hubba’s) that had failures in bad weather so they might not be the most storm worthy (though I don’t think either failure I’ve seen was guyed out properly for the conditions) tent but it is roomy and light (for a dome).

“I strongly suspect that the manufacturers don’t supply to anyone else tents they make for the major brands)”

I worked for a major US networking equipment supplier where large portions of our supply chain of subcomponents originated in China.

About 15 years ago, there was a big effort to lower the cost of one of the components and we had very high quality market-leading US based electronics manufacturers bid for the multi 100 million dollar business. In the end we had two finalists, both of them well known US electronics companies. When my quality guys audited the supply respective supply chains including the factories in China, they came back and said both companies were using parts from the same contract manufacturer in China.

As far as I know the MSR tents are made in China by the same company that makes tents for  several other top brands.

Hubba NX

China has two domestic dome tent makers of repute: Naturehike and 3F UL. Both are good quality; both make a Hubba Hubba clone, neither are anywhere near the 1150 grams claimed for the “Desert Walker,” which is lighter than any commercial tent that has that particular pole structure, that I’m aware of. Desert Walker does not exist on Aliexpress. Why? I would pass and look at those other two brands. The devil’s in the details with budget tents.

Consider REI tents, which are very well made and designed, and good value. But there are details that explain the budget pricing on some models. E.g. their Half Dome is a great tent if weight is not a concern, but the fly is a heavy nylon with PU on  the inner surface and no coating on the outside, so it will absorb a lot of water in the rain. High-end tent fabrics are either silicone on the outside and PU (or similar) on the inside, or silicone both sides (silnylon). Skipping the outer coating and not mentioning it in the product description is one way that REI sells great, but sub-premium products at affordable prices.

Naturehike and 3F UL both use silicone out/PU in fabrics in their Hubba clones, but both models are heavier than the Hubba (which is pretty heavy by today’s backpacking pop up standards), probably because their fabrics are too-heavily coated on the inside. The heavy coating gives them very high hydrostatic head (great!), but adds weight while reducing tear strength.

Finally, when you consider the lack of warranty, most budget-conscious backpackers in the market for a dome would probably be better off picking up a deeply discounted Hubba, Copper Spur, Dragonfly, et al. than playing the direct import game. On the other hand, I’ve got a very nice 3F UL tent and know a couple other people who really like theirs from that company. 3F UL and Naturehike both have reputations to protect with domestic and international customers. Desert Walker looks like a scam.

I think the specs on that page are wrong.

On their own home page and on Amazon is listed as 1.55 kg

http://desertwalkeroutdoor.com/product-detail-35

I would not trust anything you see on Amazon.
Why?
Do a search on Amazon for the BRS-3000T stove. I think I counted 12 quite different stoves with that model number. Some of them were very different.

You see, Amazon does NOT vet what the vendor says on their page. They just host the page and collect a fee. You are relying entirely on the vendor, and some of them are dodgy to say the least. Frankly, I have greater confidence buying from ebay: they at least DO support the customer.

Cheers

Roger you missed my point…

BOTH the Desert Dweller home page AND Amazon list 1.55 kg, the link from the OP has 1150 g.

Maybe it was a typo on that OP’s page . (1150 instead of 1550)

@Franco

No, I don’t think I missed the point at all.

The point I was trying to make was that you cannon rely on any specs on the Amazon page. They are usually what the vendor copied from the source home page (in this case DW) – which may or may not be accurate. Amazon does ZERO checking, so it is no use quoting specs from a vendor page on Amazon. You have to check the real source.

On the other hand, if the DW home page lists 1.55 kg, that may well be the correct weight. Seems reasonable to me. 1.15 kg seems excessively UL for a cheapie.

Cheers

“What are your thoughts on this?”

A cheap, low quality, poorly performing, short-lived product that rips off someone else’s hard work and intellectual property.  The way the fabric connects to the poles looks terribly awkward.

That is a bit of a knee-jerk reaction, and I suggest it is wrong.
‘Cheap’: yes, that is why MSR gets their tents made in China.
‘low quality’: we have not seen one of these in hand, so we cannot say that.
‘poorly performing’: same comment as we have not tested one.
‘short-lived’: same comment again.
‘rips off IP’: not a fair comment at all as we don’t know who designed it.

Let me tell you about a conversation I once had with a product mgr. I was testing one of his company’s packs, and apart from some other faults it was about 30 L instead of the advertised 45 L. Didn’t they check the design? Oh no: someone in marketing had done a couple of artistic (NOT technical) sketches, and then sent them to the factory in China, who had attempted to make something like the sketches. Given the sketches, it was simply not possible to fit 45 L into that pack.
So – what IP was there, and who owned it?

Cheers

“I wonder . . . did this tent come out of the same factory as makes the Hubba Hubba? Just via a different door. MSR does say that their tent was ‘made overseas’, so you can draw your own conclusions.”

MSR tents are built by CampTec, who have two main factories. One is China and builds more of the low end stuff, while the other is in Vietnam and builds more of the high end stuff, although a lot of high end stuff comes out their China factory too like the Carbon Reflex Series. I’m not sure which model is from which factory, but there is zero chance these factories are turning out clones for competitors from the same factory. CampTec takes IP seriously. They won’t even talk to you if you can’t demonstrate you own all the IP for the product you are wanting to produce. As Franco mentioned, they wouldn’t risk losing probably their largest client (MSR) by selling clones out the backdoor.

CampTec also couldn’t build tents at clone pricing because they have to meet social, environmental and quality standards mandated and audited by their large clients like MSR and Mountain Hardware.  You can literally get the same tent built elsewhere in China for less than half of what CampTec would cost. That’s how these clone tents come about. Someone else copies the design while cutting enough costs out of social/environmental/R&D/quality to substantially lower their costs and thus price.

Was that little pad pump from them?

I am not planning to buy one of these, just thought it was interesting.  I actually have a single person hubba.  I like it.

“That is a bit of a knee-jerk reaction, and I suggest it is wrong.”

Fair enough Roger.  You will be purchasing and using one then? :)

You are correct, the quality of this particular product is unknown, but personal experience leads me to be extremely suspicious.

We all know how Roger feels about Pop Ups.

It’s called the school of hard knocks.

But I am sure the better ones are perfectly adequate in low-land summer Sierra weather, where even a simple tarp is adequate.

Cheers

Just about anything is good enough for summer Sierra weather, even the high elevations.

When I sent my sticky, delaminated with pinholes Hubba Hubba rainfly in for replacement or repair MSR basically put up their hands and said “Not our problem”. Absolutely terrible product and customer service. I had to throw a “blue tarp” over the tent to keep the rain out. My 40 yr old NF VE 24 does not leak, neither does a 20 yr old NF Bullfrog and an old REI Chrysalis single person tent.