MLD Burn Question

What do you expect your total pack weight to be?

I was uncomfortable last summer at 22-23# in a 210D Prophet using the hipbelt. In hindsight I was using too thin of a pad as a “frame” and it collapsed.

My personal feeling right now is:

<15# no hipbelt needed

15–19# hipbelt please

>19# I need some frame please

Estimating weight with food and water around 12 lbs

I have the Burn in 210D. Never been to 20#. Forget to fasten the belt about half the time.  Sometimes fasten it but not around my waist just to keep it from flapping but I do like it for awkward stuff off-trail like talus fields etc.I  think I remember Lint Bunting saying he removed his. It’s my favorite piece of gear; my MVP.

Question for you. Why DCF?

I like the waterproofness of the DCF, not having to carry a pack cover. I might still use a bag liner though.

I’m wondering if not using a hipbelt on this type of pack frees up your hips and lumbar area to move ever so slight better?

Yes! I love not wearing a hipbelt. If I was ordering a pack for a TPW around 12# I would go with no hipbelt for sure. Maybe a simple removable hipbelt would be a nice option if you are going to be hopping around or running on some trips?

The 210D is coated. I guess both could weep at the seams. Is the DCF more waterproff? Both packs weigh the same. The 210 seems mighty tough and resistant to getting poked by brush or abraded by rock.

Is there an advantage to DCF in this application? Just curious, not challenging. Maybe amongst our vast pool of knowledge and experience?  Well OK maybe selfishly also good to know when I consider a future purchase.

Yes and also no hip-belt I guess. I don’t seem to miss it when I forget to fasten it, until the dangling ends get in the way or flop around and as I said before I often just fasten it to itself to keep it out of the way.

From the MLD website:
<h1>DX 210 RIPSTOP ™</h1>
At 4.5 oz per sq/yd, DX 210d Ripstop is a woven 210 denier Type 6-6 HT Nylon with the ripstop threads made from UHMWPE (Ultra High Molecular Weight Polyethelyne). UHMWPE is 10X stronger and more abrasion resistant than steel. An additional X pattern of Nylon over-weave improves abrasion and tear resistance. The inside of the fabric has a PU waterproof coating. This fabric is the new standard in lightweight super-tough pack fabrics.

Note that we do not use the more common and weaker Type 6 woven nylons from China that may look the same and are touted as having “high abrasion resistance.” Our DX 210d costs 2X more than those cheaper look-a-likes. There are even some packs being made with very cheap look-a-like fabric, and the ripstop threads are basic white nylon made to resemble UHMWPE ripstop.

Is hybrid DCF stiffer than 210D? I have a XPAC bag that is stiff which is nice when loading. That said, I prefer the feel, lower cost and purported durability of 210D. I’m unlikely to really wear a pack out, unfortunately I don’t get out enough for that to happen.

Increased retention in 210d is mentioned in several threads such as https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/zpack-arc-backpacks-advice-on-dcf-vs-gridstop/

That’s a great link Matthew. Thanks!

I dig that the DCF has taped seems and is less likely to seep water in down pours.

I’m actually more interested in the way the Burn carry’s and comfort of going hipbelt-less then the fabric.

I ordered mine with the hip belt about a year ago.  My pack weights were all between 12-16lbs this year.  After using the belt on my first trip of the year I started trying it without buckling the belt and loved it.  Really freed up my movement.  Eventually I just cut the belt off.  Very easy to do cleanly.  Before I started amputating I did pack it up with 20lbs and go for a walk beltless and felt like it carried fine.  That being said I’d been hiking without the belt all year, I think that probably helped.  Maybe just get the belt then try it both ways… slice and dice if need be.

Thank you for the reply and insight JStanky, I ordered one without the padded hip belt, and just the removable webbing belt. Taking the hipbeltless plunge.

Have fun out there Shane.  I think you’ll love the Burn.

I dont realy care about the weight.

8 oz oz isnt even noticeable. Sorry, its not.

I like going frameless on short trips, simply because the pack is less bulky to store under my little tarp.

But, and this is big , i hate packing a frameless pack, by comparison to one that stays open and upright.

Regarding how the burn carries:
I have a Burn and previously had no experience with frameless packs. With very little thought or effort, I have been able to load it properly so that my hips carry the load when total pack weight is 15 lb or less.

Previously owned the Prophet with a hip belt.  I found that regardless of how I packed it or tried to make a frame with my sleeping pad, it didn’t do much to transfer weight to my hips.  I also found that I never came close to filling it to capacity so I gave it away and purchased the burn without the hipbelt.

I find that as long as I keep the total pack weight at or under 20lbs, it’s fine for me.  I believe Ron is now offering the larger Prophet shoulder straps which would have been nice, but for me, not completely necessary.

I got the Burn, as of yet have not tried it out. Feels ok loaded in the house but I know things change when boots hit the trail. I guess I’m still hesitant on the comfort of a  frameless pack.