- Dec 28, 2019 at 8:10 am #3624560
Need some advise. I’m considering a MLD Burn DCF and can’t decide on weather or not to order with or without the hipbelt. The issue is I’m not really sure how these (Burn) packs carry without a frame or hipbelt. My current pack is a Elemental Horizons Kalais and wanting to get a lighter pack. My base weight could be around 7-8lbs with a lighter pack.
I do have back issues so I’m a bit hesitant but I really don’t know how the Burn rides. Just looking for some real world input,Dec 28, 2019 at 1:15 pm #3624563
What do you expect your total pack weight to be?
I was uncomfortable last summer at 22-23# in a 210D Prophet using the hipbelt. In hindsight I was using too thin of a pad as a “frame” and it collapsed.
My personal feeling right now is:
<15# no hipbelt needed
15–19# hipbelt please
>19# I need some frame pleaseDec 28, 2019 at 4:47 pm #3624588
Estimating weight with food and water around 12 lbsDec 28, 2019 at 5:57 pm #3624598
I have the Burn in 210D. Never been to 20#. Forget to fasten the belt about half the time. Sometimes fasten it but not around my waist just to keep it from flapping but I do like it for awkward stuff off-trail like talus fields etc.I think I remember Lint Bunting saying he removed his. It’s my favorite piece of gear; my MVP.
Question for you. Why DCF?Dec 28, 2019 at 6:35 pm #3624603
I like the waterproofness of the DCF, not having to carry a pack cover. I might still use a bag liner though.Dec 28, 2019 at 6:37 pm #3624604
I’m wondering if not using a hipbelt on this type of pack frees up your hips and lumbar area to move ever so slight better?Dec 28, 2019 at 9:50 pm #3624621
Yes! I love not wearing a hipbelt. If I was ordering a pack for a TPW around 12# I would go with no hipbelt for sure. Maybe a simple removable hipbelt would be a nice option if you are going to be hopping around or running on some trips?Dec 29, 2019 at 1:47 pm #3624698
The 210D is coated. I guess both could weep at the seams. Is the DCF more waterproff? Both packs weigh the same. The 210 seems mighty tough and resistant to getting poked by brush or abraded by rock.
Is there an advantage to DCF in this application? Just curious, not challenging. Maybe amongst our vast pool of knowledge and experience? Well OK maybe selfishly also good to know when I consider a future purchase.
Yes and also no hip-belt I guess. I don’t seem to miss it when I forget to fasten it, until the dangling ends get in the way or flop around and as I said before I often just fasten it to itself to keep it out of the way.Dec 29, 2019 at 2:13 pm #3624702
From the MLD website:
<h1>DX 210 RIPSTOP ™</h1>
At 4.5 oz per sq/yd, DX 210d Ripstop is a woven 210 denier Type 6-6 HT Nylon with the ripstop threads made from UHMWPE (Ultra High Molecular Weight Polyethelyne). UHMWPE is 10X stronger and more abrasion resistant than steel. An additional X pattern of Nylon over-weave improves abrasion and tear resistance. The inside of the fabric has a PU waterproof coating. This fabric is the new standard in lightweight super-tough pack fabrics.
Note that we do not use the more common and weaker Type 6 woven nylons from China that may look the same and are touted as having “high abrasion resistance.” Our DX 210d costs 2X more than those cheaper look-a-likes. There are even some packs being made with very cheap look-a-like fabric, and the ripstop threads are basic white nylon made to resemble UHMWPE ripstop.Dec 29, 2019 at 3:52 pm #3624710
Is hybrid DCF stiffer than 210D? I have a XPAC bag that is stiff which is nice when loading. That said, I prefer the feel, lower cost and purported durability of 210D. I’m unlikely to really wear a pack out, unfortunately I don’t get out enough for that to happen.Dec 29, 2019 at 3:55 pm #3624711
Increased retention in 210d is mentioned in several threads such as https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/zpack-arc-backpacks-advice-on-dcf-vs-gridstop/Dec 29, 2019 at 4:58 pm #3624727
That’s a great link Matthew. Thanks!Dec 29, 2019 at 5:18 pm #3624730
I dig that the DCF has taped seems and is less likely to seep water in down pours.Dec 29, 2019 at 5:53 pm #3624736
I’m actually more interested in the way the Burn carry’s and comfort of going hipbelt-less then the fabric.Jan 6, 2020 at 3:45 pm #3625839JStankyBPL Member
@jstankyLocale: SF Bay Area
I ordered mine with the hip belt about a year ago. My pack weights were all between 12-16lbs this year. After using the belt on my first trip of the year I started trying it without buckling the belt and loved it. Really freed up my movement. Eventually I just cut the belt off. Very easy to do cleanly. Before I started amputating I did pack it up with 20lbs and go for a walk beltless and felt like it carried fine. That being said I’d been hiking without the belt all year, I think that probably helped. Maybe just get the belt then try it both ways… slice and dice if need be.Jan 6, 2020 at 9:09 pm #3625881
Thank you for the reply and insight JStanky, I ordered one without the padded hip belt, and just the removable webbing belt. Taking the hipbeltless plunge.Jan 7, 2020 at 1:32 pm #3625962JStankyBPL Member
@jstankyLocale: SF Bay Area
Have fun out there Shane. I think you’ll love the Burn.Jan 12, 2020 at 10:01 pm #3626793M BBPL Member
I dont realy care about the weight.
8 oz oz isnt even noticeable. Sorry, its not.
I like going frameless on short trips, simply because the pack is less bulky to store under my little tarp.
But, and this is big , i hate packing a frameless pack, by comparison to one that stays open and upright.Jan 13, 2020 at 8:16 am #3626832Jimmy LegsBPL Member
Regarding how the burn carries:
I have a Burn and previously had no experience with frameless packs. With very little thought or effort, I have been able to load it properly so that my hips carry the load when total pack weight is 15 lb or less.
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