- Oct 17, 2018 at 8:10 am #3560198William ChiltonBPL Member
I’ll echo Mole’s thanks.
“I’ll see if I can squeak out a few more inches of width to get to 50″. There are a few variables I can tweak.”
Personally, I’d really hope that you can get those extra inches without increasing the footprint. The large footprint is the main thing that has stopped me buying a TT SS2, and it looks as if you’re pretty much at the same size (overall) already.Oct 17, 2018 at 12:01 pm #3560206JCHBPL Member
I may be in the minority here, but I use a 2P tent solo, so I would vote for “keeping the tent footprint reasonable”. I like having all my gear inside. I also like to be able to get in wet, unpack into the “dry side”, then move over and mop up the “wet side”. Once settled I sleep diagonally in the Duplex. The dimensions of the Duplex work very well for me as does it’s footprint. I particularly like the size of the vestibules in that they do not add a lot of width to the footprint.Oct 17, 2018 at 4:09 pm #3560235
The X-Mid layout fundamentally has a generous amount of vestibule space, so it doesn’t lend itself as well to a small footprint shelter since the footprint is the sum of the floor area + vestibule area. On the other extreme, a layout like the SD High Route with very little vestibule space can offer a tiny footprint while still having a reasonable floor size. So if I shrunk the X-Mid 2P to the footprint of the Duplex I’d have quite a bit more vestibule area but quite a bit less floor area – it wouldn’t be a good balance of floor area and vestibule area.
I spent some time looking at the 2P layout last night and I think I can do 50″ without enlarging the footprint (see below). It’s a little shorter but wider (more square). I’ll plan to get a prototype built like the grey one below (blue is current):Oct 17, 2018 at 6:41 pm #3560260Kevin BabioneBPL Member
Now you should partner with Klymit or another pad manufacturer to make trapezoidal pads for your X-Mid tents. Can you do one more picture showing what the 2P would look like with 2 25×72″ pads?Oct 17, 2018 at 6:49 pm #3560264John VanceBPL Member
@servingkoLocale: Intermountain West
I too would prefer the ability to use two wide pads even if it gives up a bit of length. At 5’9” I have space to work with but I certainly understand the frustration of taller folks. Looking forward to this. I nearly pulled the trigger multiple times on the one person but I am anxiously waiting for the two person to get sorted out.Oct 17, 2018 at 8:49 pm #3560285
Here’s a potential 52″ wide floor (which would probably turn out more like 50″) shown with two wide (25 x 72″) pads and then the same thing but with a more typical tapered shape rather than a true rectangle.Oct 17, 2018 at 11:36 pm #3560307Rich GBPL Member
I may have missed it (hey, it’s a 7 page thread!), but what is the target weight for the 2P?Oct 18, 2018 at 12:21 am #3560310
“What is the target weight for the 2P?”
I don’t want to give all the juicy details away long before this tent ever launches, but the first prototype is appreciably lighter than my TT Saddle 2.Oct 19, 2018 at 1:43 am #3560492Troy AmmonsBPL Member
Available any place other than massdrop?Oct 19, 2018 at 2:17 am #3560499
No. Massdrop is doing all the hard work and really getting these tents built so they’re the only ones selling them. They’re funding all the prototyping, working with the factories/supply chain, customers, warranty etc. I design them and they make the actual tents happen.
Some day I might take over production and sell them myself, but it wouldn’t be any cheaper because Massdrop can do things a lot more efficiently and at a higher scale that I can.Oct 19, 2018 at 2:18 am #3560501Troy AmmonsBPL Member
ThanksOct 19, 2018 at 12:51 pm #3560534Kevin BabioneBPL Member
Thanks for the images of the pads in place – it helps a lot.Oct 19, 2018 at 7:06 pm #3560580Ryan SmithBPL Member
@violentgreenLocale: East TN
“appreciably lighter than my TT Saddle 2.”
Gosh, I hope not. I’ve got a Saddle2 and am very happy with it, but throw in a polyester fly plus fewer ounces and it’s going to be hard to pass up the 2p version.
RyanOct 19, 2018 at 8:25 pm #3560591JCHBPL Member
…and it’s going to be hard to pass up the 2p version.
If Dan is doing this correctly, that’s pretty much the crux of the idea :)Oct 19, 2018 at 9:49 pm #3560617Russell BiserBPL Member
It looks like two rectangular 25×77 inch pads would work as it is only 5 extra inches vs what you pictured.
Would the two man keep the generous gap between mesh and fly?
Also my wife sleeps on the right. You may want to figure out which side female partners are more likely to sleep on and arrange the poles and inner to give that side more headroom over face while laying down.Oct 19, 2018 at 10:01 pm #3560620
It’s really too early to be talking about the specifics of weight but since I opened that topic I’ll follow through.
My TT Saddle (fly + inner only) weighed 1040g (36.6g) out of the box and 1068g (37.6oz) after seam sealing. The first X-Mid 2P prototype weighs 1020g (35.9oz) and that’s factory seam sealed, so it’s 1.7oz lighter than my seam sealed Saddle.
With that said, my TT Saddle weight is over spec. I haven’t seen many other user verified weights to know if that is the norm or not. TT claims 36oz including the stakes (~2oz for 6) so the fly + inner should be ~34oz but as mentioned mine was 36.6oz without the stakes before seam sealing and is 37.6oz now. It’s hard for me to believe that 34oz Saddle’s from this production run are common, but perhaps so. If at-spec Saddle’s do exist, then they could be slightly lighter even after seam sealing, but within an ounce.
Of course the weight of the X-Mid 2P will also change. I suspect it’ll get slightly heavier because I’m making the floor a few inches wider, but I’m also going to trim a few things so I doubt it’ll change either way by more than 1/2 oz.
So the 2P will be appreciably lighter than my seam-sealed Saddle, but if on-spec Saddle’s do exist then those could be lighter still. The bottom line is that it’s going to weigh about the same as a Saddle, but I think offer a long list of appealing advantages including #5 zips (vs clips), higher end hardware (e.g. buckles), more functional vents, quite a bit more headroom (similar to SS2), more vestibule area, much simpler pitch, no sag fabric, better snow shedding etc.Oct 20, 2018 at 6:54 am #3560671
“It looks like two rectangular 25×77 inch pads would work”
Yes, under the revised geometry two of these would fit.
“Would the two man keep the generous gap between mesh and fly?”
The revised (wider) geometry planned for prototype 2 reduces this somewhat, but with the upside of a slight reduction in weight and footprint. The 1P has a 7-8″ gap around the base which is quite generous but perhaps a bit overkill. Most tents are 5-6″ but some are 4″. I’ve got a 6″ gap planned for the second prototype, so 1-2″ smaller than the 1P but I think it’s still going to be plenty.
Partly you want a sufficient gap so that a light push on the mesh doesn’t constant a potentially wet fly, but also because most tents are nylon so the fly sags a lot overnight and the gap shrinks substantially (e.g. many tents have the fly sag right against the inner in the night). Since the X-Mid is poly, the latter consideration isn’t a concern. So I suspect a 6″ gap will functional well, but if it’s not I’ll go back to 7-8″.
I considered shrinking the 1P slightly gaps but changing this alters the entire fly and it was late in the process so I didn’t want to open that can of worms for a very slight upside. If I do a second production run of the 1P someday then I might take this down to 6″ as well. Even 6″ is arguably a generous gap.
“Also my wife sleeps on the right. You may want to figure out which side female partners are more likely to sleep on and arrange the poles and inner to give that side more headroom over face while laying down.”
Hmm….mine sleeps on the left. We may need to conduct a wider poll to definitively answer the question. What is the rationale behind equipping females with more headroom over the face while laying down? More room for hair-curlers? :)Oct 20, 2018 at 12:33 pm #3560690Russell BiserBPL Member
Have you found some ultralight solar powered curlers? I’ve looked but can’t find an extension cord long enough for a regular curling iron. My wife just gives up and braids her hair for long trips. 😉
If a poll doesn’t show a clear split them obviously it is ok either way. My wife like many backpacking wives I know came to love the outdoors after dating or marrying someone who was into it. Like many sensible outdoorsy women she isn’t as into gear geekery and shaving ounces as I am and prefers a little more space and comfort and tents that don’t feel like bivies (which this shouldn’t but one side will still be better). I also carry her a helinox chair and such when she is with me. I hope most men would also want to give a woman “the good side” of the bed.
If it isn’t going to affect sales that much arrange the space to make your own partner happy!Oct 23, 2018 at 3:13 pm #3561034John McBPL Member
Dan, Wow! Lots of thought put into your design of this tent. Much appreciated.
I’d be all over this in DCF…. I know several others have stated the same. Keep up your great work.
ThxOct 23, 2018 at 3:34 pm #3561037
Thanks for the kind words John. A DCF version is likely to happen but it is a ways off because I want to do it right. I’m not going to simply make the same thing in DCF but rather revise the entire tent to place a bigger emphasis on saving weight at the expensive of some function. Basically I want it to be a “coherent” design, so if I’m using an extremely light fabric like DCF then I’m going to design the rest of the tent to be extremely light as well, at the expensive of some function (e.g. #3 zips instead of #5).
So the silpoly version will be the well rounded version, and the DCF version will be the weight geek version. The DCF version will likely make compromises like 1 vent instead of 2, hybrid instead of double wall, smaller gauge zips, slightly smaller dimensions etc.
Very roughly speaking, the 2P Silpoly design should be done in a few months and will likely pre-sale around the end of the year or early next, with deliveries still 8 months after that – maybe a bit tighter (6 months).
DCF versions will follow thereafter, but likely quite a bit thereafter because we’re still nailing down a manufacturer, and then once we do that prototyping can start.Oct 23, 2018 at 5:59 pm #3561047Link .BPL Member
Dan, I really want a 1 person DCF version!! I hope it comes to fruition, I would definitely buy one!!Oct 23, 2018 at 8:20 pm #3561069Jameson TBPL Member
Dan – im sure its too early to know but are you targeting a specific price range for the 2p silpoly? Just want to know how much I need to budget for one of em ;)Oct 23, 2018 at 10:33 pm #3561083
Massdrop sets the pricing with very little input from me (I get only a small percentage, as the tent is aggressively priced). So I don’t know their plans and I’m sure at this point they don’t have a clear price in mind either, but I expect it’ll be priced proportional to the 1P.
Most 2P tents are 10-20% more expensive than the 1P, mostly due to higher materials costs, so I expect the same will be true for the X-Mid 2P. Thus it will probably be in the $219 – $249 range but that is just speculation.Dec 4, 2018 at 7:12 am #3567331
A quick note to say that X-Mid 1P is back on Massdrop for the month. This drop might sell out the production run, or there may be one more chance around March and then that’ll be for tents for a while since any second run is a long ways off.
Also, here’s a couple photos to show that the X-Mid 1P fly actually works quite well as a shaped tarp for two if you’re looking for something really fast light and minimal. It’s basically the floor area of a MLD DuoMid but a lot more headroom with the dual pole design.Dec 4, 2018 at 5:28 pm #3567370John VanceBPL Member
@servingkoLocale: Intermountain West
Dan, amazing work on this. I really think this route to market is the future. I am in! I couldn’t hold out anymore as this design ticks all my “perfect shelter” boxes. I will be in on the 2 person as well, but would like something better for the upcoming season. I’ve been rocking a tarp when solo but I prefer to camp at non tarp friendly altitudes. This with or without the inner should be brilliant for that.
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