LIVING IN GRUNGE – and stupidity

“And worst of all no venison jerky or deer meat sausage to nibble on with my IPA.”

You and Tom and your IPAs. What is it with you elder statesmen (and I mean that in the most old-meaning way). Everyone with any taste knows that a good porter beats the heck out of the best IPA…

Could have hiked the 1.5 miles back to the car and used the heater.

Like it’s called fishing, not catching. Hunting too has no guarantee.

Two final words, weather forecast.

I think wool long underwear could have prevented this. Less funk and bacterial build up. But I will say your issue sounds unusual.

KT, I did get forecasts and both were wrong. They kept predicting “warm” weather and it kept snowing. Every hunter I met was bitching about the forecasts. I saw a few poor souls wearing cotton long johns. Luckily they were on horseback and not sweating much. (But still candidates for the Darwin Award.)

Justin, I thought about and lusted after wool longies for several nights. I’m getting some 100% Merino longs soon, mainly for sleeping.

Doug, I also love good porters and stouts. And I seem to have an affinity for ladies who like dark, heavy beer. Usually they are also women of strong character to match their strong beers.

Eric,

Per yours

…have an affinity for ladies…

I suggest you keep the merino long johns for walking and hunting, and take a hot-blooded lady for sleeping with.

What sources did you use for forecasts?

I cannot imagine a scenario where hand sanitizer “used  lightly” ( or at all…..barring an infection)  on the crotch would be a good idea.

I am no neat/clean freak and generally don’t mind healthy people’s arm pit smell, in fact I only use Lavilin if anything at all. I get dirtier than most people but I bring baby wipes and nothing ever gets to the point of funky no matter the rain, the heat, the sweat. Baby wipes.

I like your IPAs and porters just fine.  But anyone who knows anything about beer knows that the best brewers in the world are the Belgians.  No one goes back after tasting a good Saison.

As to the less important issue of your body funk, it is really nice of you to share with those not on your trip the details of your funk.  I’ve never put sanitizer in the crotch, but I’m sure it will wake you up better than coffee.

“You and Tom and your IPAs. What is it with you elder statesmen (and I mean that in the most old-meaning way). Everyone with any taste knows that a good porter beats the heck out of the best IPA…”

It’s due to deterioration of our taste buds. Anything less than 70 IBUs tastes like Kool Aid. Of course, I felt that way about porters when I was much younger. I only drank them when I had a cough. Even PBR tasted better than a good porter. 5, 4, 3, 2….
;0)

Regarding body funk, a couple of observations: Each person’s B.O. is different, as is their tolerance for B.O., both their own and everybody else’s. I have gone as long as 3 weeks without cleaning anything on some longer trips, with no ill effect or offense to others, save for the usual ribald comments by companions who reeked as badly as I probably did. In short, you get used to it. On shorter trips in the company of people less tolerant of B.O., or when it becomes a comfort issue, I have found it a simple matter to use a bottle/pan of water to wash the funk off the nether region, or occasionally use a Wet Wipe, followed by a light application of Sport Slick salve. My armpits have never merited that kind of attention. Maybe if you are hiking with a person of the opposite sex, it might be an issue for some, but personally I have found the fragrance of a woman’s armpits downright attractive most of the time. Something to do with pheromones, I’m told.

I think maybe smell degenerates with age like taste, so maybe you become more tolerant of odor

And maybe you produce less odors.  Younger people have more hormones which produce odors to attract mates.

People definitively smell differently. We are probably just starting to get to know a small amount about what all is in our body odor and how we and other animals process the smell. I know that there are people that can have BO that does not bother me at all even if I smell it and others that whatever they put out, even a hint of it I find disagreeable. That is just what I am conscious of too so there’s a lot more there. I grew up in Europe ;) and unless BO was bad, it wasn’t something we felt we had to completely erase from our bodies.  I have a keen nose ,for good and bad, and I know my smell changes with what I eat and with hormone fluctuations.

Now some folks won’t like the generalization here, but as a woman I find a certain amount of personal hygene more crucial . I will leave it at that.

It’s due to deterioration of our taste buds. Anything less than 70 IBUs tastes like Kool Aid.

I figured that’s what it was.  Personally, I’m sick of the microbrew race to out-bitter each other.  When I want a beer I’m happy with something plain from a can like Grandpa used to drink.  PBR is choice.

A lot going on with BO, plenty of studies that point to it having a much greater impact on sexual attraction than we are consciously aware of.  We may be clever, but we’re still just animals.

We have a local brewery here (actually a couple, it is the PNW after all), Skookum Brewery. Wonderful place. Definitely not a ‘tony’ place – barebones inside, you pretty much sit next to the brew kettles at ‘picnic’ tables. They concentrate on making beer, so they don’t serve food directly. Instead, they have different food trucks come for the day. You order food from the food truck, then bring it inside (or sit outside if it’s nice) and order your beer. Love the place. Below is a pic of me with a flight of beers for tasting. I’ve got the darks. My buddy, who took the picture, had the IPAs and such flight. (Look closely Tom, there seems to be a beer named after you! :-).

Funkadelic: As I’ve said before, the body has a wonderful ability to clean itself. I take one shower a week, and only use soap on my nethers, underarms and feet (there is science behind this). Once a week. Each morning I use a wet washcloth on my nethers and underarms without soap. Been doing this for months. I’ve never had anyone tell me I smelled (including folks who would have no trouble telling me if they thought I smelled). I’ve never had rashes and such, and my skin isn’t all breaking out and such, since I’ve started this routine.

“I figured that’s what it was. Personally, I’m sick of the microbrew race to out-bitter each other. When I want a beer I’m happy with something plain from a can like Grandpa used to drink. PBR is choice.”

OK. On a more serious note, I also have had enough of the race to the bitter end. With any beer, even PBR, it is a question of balancing the hops, malt, and alcohol. If a brewer can’t wrap their head around that, they are either pandering to the tasteless louts that constantly clamor for an ever higher IBU count(probably as a means of measuring their manhood), or are in the wrong profession. I personally prefer my ales on the bitter side and love the subtle flavors of the various hops, hence my general preferance for IPAs, but not at the sacrifice of balance. I have had IPAs with an IBU count in the 30s that were ambrosia for the gods, masterpieces of balance and ingredient selection, and also IPAs with an IBU count up in the 90s that were undrinkable. I also enjoy a well crafted pale ale, porter or stout on occasion, but not as my go to beverage. Hell, even PBR goes down easy in the right weather, with company. After all, I was practically weaned on it as a youngster back in Michigan.

“A lot going on with BO, plenty of studies that point to it having a much greater impact on sexual attraction than we are consciously aware of.”

No doubt about it, at least IME.

“We may be clever, but we’re still just animals.”

I long ago gave up on being clever. It’s much more satisfying to just root about in the forest duff. Ya never know what you’ll dig up ;0)

“We have a local brewery here (actually a couple, it is the PNW after all), Skookum Brewery. Wonderful place. Definitely not a ‘tony’ place – barebones inside, you pretty much sit next to the brew kettles at ‘picnic’ tables. They concentrate on making beer, so they don’t serve food directly. Instead, they have different food trucks come for the day. You order food from the food truck, then bring it inside (or sit outside if it’s nice) and order your beer. Love the place. Below is a pic of me with a flight of beers for tasting. I’ve got the darks. My buddy, who took the picture, had the IPAs and such flight.”

Yum. My kind of place. Expect an email inviting myself to lunch when I get back from the Kern. :0))

“(Look closely Tom, there seems to be a beer named after you! :-).”

You’re probably referring to that double IPA, second from the right in the foreground. And it might well have my name on it. Only a sample will answer the question: Is it skillfully balanced, or is it swill?

“Funkadelic: As I’ve said before, the body has a wonderful ability to clean itself. I take one shower a week, and only use soap on my nethers, underarms and feet (there is science behind this). Once a week. Each morning I use a wet washcloth on my nethers and underarms without soap. Been doing this for months. I’ve never had anyone tell me I smelled (including folks who would have no trouble telling me if they thought I smelled). I’ve never had rashes and such, and my skin isn’t all breaking out and such, since I’ve started this routine.”

I also only use soap on the nethers/pits, haven’t used deodorant in over 50 years, and haven’t had anyone complain about my B.O. since I stopped eating raw garlic daily, back when I was still working. My colleagues sent a delegation to me to ask me to stop.
But I do rinse off daily with warm water. Probably unnecessary, and I’m not sure why I still do it.

Yeah, washing does seem to help, doesn’t it? Even a once-over with a wet rag. Funny about that.

Cheers

With any beer, even PBR, it is a question of balancing the hops, malt, and alcohol.

Ah, Tom, the Sam Adams TV ad tells us this, but I think it’s far off the mark.  First, you left out the yeast.  As a brewer, I strongly believe the proper yeast and fermentation process can be the single most important part.  This is especially true in the more subtle flavors or many belgian and english beers.  Belgian yeast make wonderful esters.  And the english yeasts lend a wonderful subtle breadiness to their beers.

American craft beers often seem to be dominated by a big hop flavor or a big dark malt flavor.  The yeast flavors certainly disappears in those beers.  Not to criticize them, because I like them at times too.  But the best beers, even American craft beers, don’t so much balance malt and hops well and do one or the other well.  While a stout needs some hops, the dark malt dominates, and that is what makes it good.  And a lot of the best IPAs have almost no darkness at all.

As to PBR, it does balance all of them.  It has almost no malt flavor, almost no hop flavor, no yeast flavor, and little alcohol flavor.  I think the water flavor dominates.

Sorry for the soapbox.  But I’m almost as passionate about brewing as I am about backpacking.

” As a brewer, I strongly believe the proper yeast and fermentation process can be the single most important part. This is especially true in the more subtle flavors or many belgian and english beers. Belgian yeast make wonderful esters. And the english yeasts lend a wonderful subtle breadiness to their beers.”

You’re right, I did leave out the yeast. As I understand it from having brewed for a couple of years, there are two basic fermentation processes, top and bottom fermentation, depending on the type of yeast involved. Beyond that, again as I understand it, just as with bread yeast, yeasts vary widely depending on where they have evolved. I do not have nearly the expertise that you do, but I did work in Europe for 2 years, and sampled a wide range of beers from The Netherlands, Belgium, Germany, and the UK. I completely agree with you about the subtle flavors of both Belgian and English ales/beers. However, I have found the best, as always IMO, of the craft ales here in the Pacific Northwest to be on par with English ales. I cannot speak to the Belgian beers, simply because I do not particularly enjoy their flavor profiles and no longer drink them. Part of that is a function of age, I suppose, but also of personal preference. Perhaps I should give them another try. It’s been quite a while now.

“American craft beers often seem to be dominated by a big hop flavor or a big dark malt flavor. The yeast flavors certainly disappears in those beers.”

That is hard to disagree with. Because of that lack of balance, I have a hard time finding a brew I really enjoy, and when I do it rarely sticks around long, because the local brewers, like almost everybody else in this country, seem to value change for the sake of change, as do their clienteles.

“But the best beers, even American craft beers, don’t so much balance malt and hops well and do one or the other well. While a stout needs some hops, the dark malt dominates, and that is what makes it good. And a lot of the best IPAs have almost no darkness at all.”

Here we will just have to agree to disagree. I have enjoyed far too many craft beers that manage to get it just about right, on rare occasions even exactly right, to agree with that broad an indictment. In the end, evaluation on that level for people who have a somewhat refined, or highly refined, palate, will come down to personal taste, probably with a considerable degree of overlap on the basic variables. We have some overlap already, because I have also found many of the best IPAs to have almost no darkness at all.

Oh, and we completely agree on PBR. Where’s Discopants? If this doesn’t smoke him out of the woodwork, he’s either had one PBR too many or he’s gone backpacking. ;0)))

In the interest of thread drift, I have a story about Pabst Blue Ribbon. When I was a poor starving student in Chicago in the early ’70s, I dated a lady that lived in Milwaukee. When I went up there for a long weekend, she and her friends turned me on to a separate product that the local Pabst brewery sold. It was called Red, White, & Blue, and it was actually PBR sold in different bottles. It was just $3 for a case of 24 if you gave them back the empty bottles! It was the consummate multi-use beer in that we could get a proper buzz cheaply, and it was also a decent and affordable beer to boil the brats in. Win-win!

The low-brow parties at our place were pretty popular, as I would bring back 10-12 cases of Rainier or Olympia when I would drive home to Montana to see the folks, and  we would bring back Coors when we did a ski holiday in Colorado. I won’t drink any of those now, as they are what we used to call DNW–da*n near water. Give me a quality pilsner (Urquell, Oscar Blues Yella Pils…) and I’m a happy boy. Screw the overly hoppy beers.

I like a good high hop beer.  And high hops are easy to brew.  High hops overwhelm and hide most brewing mistakes or inadequacies.

I also like a big stout.  Again, its easy on the brewer mostly because of the high malt flavors dominating.

I also love a good belgian saison.  But the yeasts are subtle and finicky and hard to get just right.  And just a little hops does the trick.

I guess I love most of them. That’s why a flight can be fun.  You get a lot of different flavors, but they aren’t all mixed into one beer.

A “balanced” is low on my list just because there is not enough of any flavor to add character.  A PBR, for example, has bland lager yeast, low malt, and low hops all balanced together in a boring beer.  Since all beer used to be like this, the only thing it has going for it, to me, is the nostalgia of being the beer I grew up on.

“A “balanced” is low on my list just because there is not enough of any flavor to add character.”

I have to admit “balanced” is probably not a very precise term. I guess what I was struggling to describe is a beer/ale is “balanced” when no one flavor element is so dominant that it overwhelms my ability to appreciate the others, but at the same time leans toward my particular preference, which is on the bitter side; but not so much so that I can’t detect, and savor, the nuances of the hop flavors and malt, as well. There is a sweet spot where that is the result, what you call character, if I understand you correctly. Unfortunately, not many brewers achieve that, IME.

On a related note, one of the best lagers I have ever tasted was brewed in Baghdad, of all places. The father of a classmate of mine in grad school was the brewery physician, and he got me invited for a personal tour of the facility. At the end, there was a tasting, and it was sublime. They had a Norwegian brewmaster, a German formula, all imported ingredients, and the result was a beer good enough that I remember it fondly to this day.

In the end, we’re all brothers in beer, and whatever gives an individual pleasure is a good beer to him/her. In that regard, I can, and have, happily shared a PBR and many other industrial brews with people whose company I enjoyed down through the years. I look forward to doing so again, hopefully in the not too distant future, with Ian and others for whom PBR is the beer of choice, and far easier on the wallet in the bargain.
It certainly worked for me back in my youthful days in Michigan, for reasons so well put by Gary, above. :0)

I should probably start working a flight into my routine from time to time. Your comment has made me pause, not for the first time, to wonder if I am not a bit too focused on a relatively narrow part of the spectrum.

My, you guys really like your fancy beer. The best of everything around here. We are a spolied bunch ;)

I get like that around olive oil because I grew up consuming large amounts of the bitter  cold pressed stuff, but everyone got that, it was not considered a specialty over there.

“My, you guys really like your fancy beer. The best of everything around here. We are a spolied bunch ;)”

It’s just a couple of guys BSing around. Never take us seriously, because we sure don’t.

Now, a fine olive oil with a little balsamic vinegar in a saucer, and a loaf of fresh baked crusty bread…….that’s serious. And spoiled. ;0)

Dang it Tom, Now I’m hungry!

The juxtaposition of crotch / grunge discussion and beer adulation here is a bit disconcerting if you read the whole thread straight through, while of course drinking a nice Scottish ale that fits neatly between your stouts, IPAs, and PBRs.