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Lipstick on a Pig? Wind & Cold Temperature Testing of the Jetboil Stash (StoveBench)


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Home Forums Campfire Editor’s Roundtable Lipstick on a Pig? Wind & Cold Temperature Testing of the Jetboil Stash (StoveBench)

Viewing 25 posts - 26 through 50 (of 56 total)
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  • #3706837
    Jon Fong
    BPL Member

    @jonfong

    Locale: FLAT CAT GEAR

    Ryan is so correct.  I lent my daughter a canister topped stove for a weekend trip to Catalina Island.  you have to pick up a new canister on the island as you cannot take fuel on the ferry.  In one meal (two people), they blew threw a whole canister of gas.  I still have no idea how she did it.

    #3706840
    Philip Tschersich
    BPL Member

    @philip-ak

    Locale: Kodiak Alaska

    Terrifying. Clearly I have too much faith in my fellow human beings. I stand corrected (and apparently surrounded by dumb-dumbs, lol).

    #3706922
    Chris FormyDuval
    BPL Member

    @chform

    Locale: RTP

    I’ll admit to having the Soto windmaster turned up too high one of the first times I used it. It’s just so quite with such a stable flame and I was more used to adjusting a stove in part by sound. I was also wearing gloves(sub freezing) so I didn’t feel around the pot for excess heat.

    #3706934
    Nick Gatel
    BPL Member

    @ngatel

    Locale: Southern California

    Ryan,

    Thank you for the honest test <not a review>. I normally don’t read reviews of new items on the market, but your “lipstick on a pig” title caught my eye.

    I am not surprised with the glowing testimonials you quoted from online reviews; this is the sorry state of most reviews today. So I appreciate your honest feedback, which means few people will be purchasing this stove via a BPL link.

    It is also sad that folks like Philip have to fabricate pieces to make gear and equipment work as it should in the first place. In this case, poor wind performance to save a few grams — which can make a stove next to worthless in windy weather.

    It always wasn’t that way. The first mass produced canister backpacking stove, the Hank Roberts/Gerry stoves had integrated windscreens.

     

    The 1980s Gaz Globetrotter had a windshield built in too.

     

    Snow Peak made it optional and the screen was almost as heavy as the stove (they could have done something better), but the shield makes a huge difference.

     

    We need more people like Ryan to call out the manufacturers for poor designs instead of benefitting financially by publishing a “good” review, and we need people like Ryan and the BPL community at large to educate ourselves, and we need to quite buying new, poorly designed stuff.

    Thanks, again, Ryan.

    #3706973
    Chris FormyDuval
    BPL Member

    @chform

    Locale: RTP

    It’s not like jetboil didn’t do there own tests and realize it’s short comings? They had to know, right? Basic testing? It’s not like this is they’re first stove. I had speculated before that perhaps the anemic burner performance was perhaps to avoid damage to the fins, aka another Sol Ti event. Didn’t want to risk that. Adding a regulator to partially offset pressure drop and a better burner would erode profit margins. More of a “reuse existing parts, tooling as much as you can, make it pretty, market to hell out of it, we’ll sell a bunch”. Had it been performed up to potential I might have suggested it to people looking for a well designed, all in one package for those not wanting to do lots of research or mix and match, just starting out solo backpacking that they can pick up off the shelf at the major retailers and have it serve them well enough with the fuel “savings” adding a little margin to new users.

    Another issue I found even more disappointing was the over the top endorsement by some of the more established you-tubers and online reviewers. The testing scenarios all seemed designed to portray all other stoves in the worst light with of course the stash right up there with sliced bread. I can understand a couple not being too familiar with decent testing, maybe they’ve never come across this site, Hikin Jim or Hiram but it’s a bit too coincidental for me(tin foil hat time). Marketing at its finest………

    #3706986
    Jon Fong
    BPL Member

    @jonfong

    Locale: FLAT CAT GEAR

    I am actually fascinated by the JetBoil Stash product launch as it gives insights as to how companies function.  It all starts with the initial product specifications and for a company that size, it is usually marketing driven.   I can just see the evolution: how can we expand our market?  Well, we always get beat up by these so called Ultralighters.  You know, they pay a LOT of money for lightweight gear, so here is the plan:

    • Come up with a model that is at least 40% lighter
    • Must be fast
    • It must have some component in it with titanium
    • Must be a fully integrated design (ease of use)
    • Sell it at a 25% premium

     

    Engineering Response

    • Reduce weight, dump the luxury stuff: neoprene, wind guard, cup (HX protector), keep the volume low
    • Design a cheaper, smaller stove to maintain cost target and volume target
    • Unregulated stoves are cheaper

     

    Net result: product meets all specification (Verification)

    The question is, does the product meet Validation (is this what the customer wants)

    Product reviewers:  Frankly, to do a good review takes a lot of time.  A lot of these reviewer want to be the first out there so do “quick test”.  That increases their viewership and expands their base.  Ryan’s review, while in depth will probably not get the same attention because of the delays of collecting good data.  That is one of the key problems in this internet age: instant gratification.

    Since it all starts at the top (Specifications) who ever drove that probably missed the mark.  That being said, they say that the best market research that you can do is to launch a product.  No doubt, JetBoil will get some feedback and upgrade the product:  Continuous Improvement.  My 2 cents.

    #3706997
    Nick Gatel
    BPL Member

    @ngatel

    Locale: Southern California

    Jon,

    Excellent summary.

    #3707011
    Philip Tschersich
    BPL Member

    @philip-ak

    Locale: Kodiak Alaska

    This is my favorite Stash review on the JB website:

    “This stove looks absolutely incredible! Can’t wait to use it.” Five stars

    #3707062
    Matanya Loewenthal
    BPL Member

    @matanyal

    Locale: Midwest/ DC

    Great review, as a former Big Box Outdoor Retailer employee, I saw all sorts of overhyped gear that when I took out to my backyard would function like crap compared to the older and cheaper gear I already had.

    I am however interested in this “Moulder strip.” does anyone have a link to the original or official thread for that? I’m struggling to figure out what/how it worked. Thanks!

    #3707065
    Philip Tschersich
    BPL Member

    @philip-ak

    Locale: Kodiak Alaska
    #3707076
    K. Urs Grütter, LL.M.
    BPL Member

    @charly13muri-be-ch

    Locale: Switzerland

    Nice work, thanks a lot!

    I do not like canister stoves – although they are probably the most convenient ones to use. They tip over easily, and they are rather heavy. I prefer alcos, they can not be beaten for fuel efficiency and light weight, if tuned properly.

    With all burners, two points are the same:

    If you allow more boiling time, you will be more fuel-efficient. For my alcos, I allow about 10 min boil time for 500ml, and I can pretty consistently do it on 17ml of alcohol. If I allow 30min boil time, I can go as low as 8ml of alcohol.

    Wind: As I do not like to sit down even for a quick meal in a windy spot, I carefully select my rest-spots to find as calm a place as possible. The stove will be grateful, too, be it canister or alco.

    My alcos have a conical windshield, which serves as a pot-stand, too. So they stay put despite weighing less than 1 oz.

    http://www.ipernity.com/doc/charly13/44323876/in/album/962414

    http://www.ipernity.com/doc/charly13/48789674/in/album/1237488

    enjoy your meals!

    #3707077
    K. Urs Grütter, LL.M.
    BPL Member

    @charly13muri-be-ch

    Locale: Switzerland

    Nick Gatel:

    I actually had a globetrotter like this, but it failed me in any other than absolutely nicest weather conditions an dead, I mean really dead, calm conditions! So I trashed it decades ago.

    Happy trails

    Urs

    #3707079
    James Marco
    BPL Member

    @jamesdmarco

    Locale: Finger Lakes

    I think 4500BTU is fine for solo or a couple people. I generally do not push most cooking beyond 1500BTU anyway.

    I am kind-of at a loss for high power testing/cooking. Except for an uncommon fried trout or two, I simply do not push for lots of heat. Mostly, I try for a setting between 8-12 minutes for most water boiling. Wind has to be pretty severe to bother my typical low burner/wind screen set up. For morning breakfast, I am usually busy repacking my gear. For evening supper, I am too busy gathering firewood. The low heat helps a lot with fuel consumption 4.5-6.0gm fuel per 0.5L. In fall/spring it goes up slightly, and, in winter it goes up more, of course.

    The most heat loss I usually encounter is from the exposed top of my pot since the wind screen comes up about 3/4 of the way on the pot (and assumed to be heated air from the burner.) Putting a layer of foam helps a lot, but I am not sure it is worth the weight (efficiency vs trail weight.) Much like a JetBoil, around the sides works well if you have a tall pot.

    #3707114
    Nick Gatel
    BPL Member

    @ngatel

    Locale: Southern California

    I actually had a globetrotter like this, but it failed me in any other than absolutely nicest weather conditions an dead, I mean really dead, calm conditions! So I trashed it decades ago.

    Hmmm . . .

    I have two of these stoves and I still use them. The Globe Trotter does better in wind than the Snow Peak Giga Power with the optional windscreen. See the picture below where the wind is moving the Giga Power flame around but the Globe Trotter isn’t affected.

    #3707118
    Bill in Roswell
    BPL Member

    @roadscrape88-2

    Locale: Roswell, GA, USA

    Urs, what alco stove do you use that allows such a slow burn? My pressurized stove, made by Hipbone, does . 5 liter water on less than 20ml in 6 min with Caldera Cone, Evernew small pasta pot. I don’t need a fast boil, but that stove design allows it.

    #3707127
    Jenny A
    BPL Member

    @jennifera

    Locale: Front Range

    Nick Gatel, I had that Hank Roberts stove!  It was my first lightweight backpacking stove.  I am not sorry that I no longer have it.

    JetBoil well always have a certain place in my heart for coming up with the original Personal Cooking System – it was so much better (faster, easier, lighter, more compact overall, more efficient) than what I’d been using previously.  But they lost me when they refused to address the issue of how even a slight breeze impacts efficiency.  MSR fired a major shot across JetBoil’s bow with the introduction of the Reactor (followed by the Windburner stoves), and things have moved on.  I too was disappointed with glowing reviews on the Stash from people I would thought might have had a different opinion.  But for many folks new to backpacking the Stash will be quite adequate.  Thanks Ryan.

     

    #3707135
    Nick Gatel
    BPL Member

    @ngatel

    Locale: Southern California

    JetBoil well always have a certain place in my heart for coming up with the original Personal Cooking System – it was so much better (faster, easier, lighter, more compact overall, more efficient) than what I’d been using previously.  But they lost me when they refused to address the issue of how even a slight breeze impacts efficiency.

    Yes, and Ryan stepped up and called them out on this. I’ve never owned any of the “personal cooking systems” (MSR or JetBoil), but I can see the attraction. From the little bit I have read the MSR WindBurner would be a great stove for dealing with wind.

    #3707551
    Dwight Mauk
    BPL Member

    @melnik

    I resisted the Jetboil for years.  Too heavy and unnecessary.  But I finally broke down a few years back and bought the Ti SOL model, and for some trips I like it.  I only boil water for my hot food, I don’t dirty pans.  Where I particularly like it is for week long trips with moderate to high mileage (I’m old, so high mileage is 15 to 20-miles/day).  After a few days it’s just nice to push the button, two minutes later you have hot water.  For example, a few years back a group of seven of us when to Glacier and I was the only one with a Jetboil, by the end of the week everyone had borrowed it to just quickly boil some water for a quick meal or hot drink.  It’s just handy.

    I think the MSR stoves Ryan mentions might have done the same thing.

    After reading this article, I just bought a Stash.  We’ll see if I like it.  Also after reading this I’m going to spend more time with my MSR Pocket Rocket 2 and a plain pot.  Or maybe the MSR combined with the Stash pot.

    Maybe electric cars can provide a different way to look at the Stash.  Most people want an EV that has 500-miles of range, due to range anxiety.  But studies indicate that most trips are less than 25-miles, so Toyota developed the Prius Prime, which has 25-miles of plug in EV, after that it’s a hybrid.  I have one of these cars, and I think Toyota is right.  I can go months without filling the 11-gallon tank.  Perhaps the Stash is like this, for 90% of trips, for 90% of backpackers, the Stash will work great.  You can’t go deep into the shoulder seasons, and you have to fiddle with a wind screen on windy days, but 90% of the time you love it.

     

    #3707631
    Craig B
    BPL Member

    @cragman

    Prior to this review , I purchased the JB Stash.  Not having previous experience with Jet Boil products, the Stash system design intrigued me .

    The idea of cannister heat exchanger .8 litre cooking system weighing in at 7.5oz seemed to good to be true .

     

    For years I have been using the original Pocket Rocket combined with a Olicamp XTS heat exchanger pot. ( Weighing in at 10.5oz  with stove ) .  Which has been a very reliable and fuel efficient system  for trips of 3 nights or longer.  Anything under 3 nights or less I would substitute the XTS pot for a less fuel efficient Snow peak titanium pot of the same volume – 1 litre  8.0 oz with stove

    I very much like the overall design and concept of the Stash.

    However, once I put the burner to the test, I  was quite unimpressed with the functionality and performance.

    Compared to my old Pocket Rocket and my Soto wind master , the Jet Boil seems to be bit tired.

    I have to say, I had high hopes for that little stove.  I wondered if maybe I just received a faulty one?   After reading several other reviews , I’ve come to the conclusion that I’ll just have to plan on making lemonade with this one

    On the bright side – I do like the pot and the stand and I am sure it will get plenty of use.

     

     

     

     

    #3713049
    Thomas
    BPL Member

    @thomas51

    Locale: Rainy Pacific Northwest

    Is the Stash pot made of Aluminum or Titanium?

    If the MSR Pocket Rocket Deluxe replaces the jetboil stove, will it fit inside the Stash pot as well?

    #3713688
    Jon Fong
    BPL Member

    @jonfong

    Locale: FLAT CAT GEAR

    The Stash pot is made of aluminum

    If you replace the stove with a PRD, it just fits inside the pot with a 4 oz. canister 9barely fits).  You cannot snap the canister into the lid,  You have to lay the canister on the side and place the burner head inside the concave of the canister.

    #3713700
    Michael B
    BPL Member

    @mikebergy

    If a basic ti or aluminum foil windscreen are used, do all the problems being discussed about the Stash go away? It seems everyone is talking about wind performance, and to me this seems easily manageable. I probably would opt to buy a sterno inferno and a separate stove and windscreen, but for someone that just wants a complete cookset, it seems buying the stash and taking a small section of aluminum foil from the drawer at home would be a good option (Jetboil pricing notwithstanding). Not everyone wants to piece together their kit. What other problems besides wind performance does the Stash suffer from?

    #3713705
    Jon Fong
    BPL Member

    @jonfong

    Locale: FLAT CAT GEAR

    The Stash suffers from sensitivity to the wind; above 4 mph it basically becomes useless.    The Pocket Rocket and Soto stoves are better, however; fuel consumption goes up significantly.  Wind protection falls into the same class as all other canister topped stoves.  You need to prevent the canister from overheating.  This can be accomplished by a full height-partial windscreen: but this will be large and does not easily packed into a small volume.  My 2 cents.

    #3713711
    Michael B
    BPL Member

    @mikebergy

    I was just going back through the posts and saw that Philip added a little windscreen in between the burner head and pot supports – did that work to alleviate the wind issues? I was thinking having something that might extend up into the HX might shield from wind and also better direct the flame further into the HX before dispersing it. I am not sure if it would cause issues with the blame being able to breathe, however.

    #3713756
    Roger Caffin
    BPL Member

    @rcaffin

    Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe

    Some of those small uprights get half their oxygen from the surroundings, after the flame has left the burner head. A windshield as described above would probably ensure an unhealthy supply of toxic CO.

    Put a windshield around the pot and canister, with a downwind gap for air to get it.

    Cheers

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