Limits of Frameless Packs

I don’t try to save weight in my packs for…well, any reason, to be honest; my spine neither wants nor deserves the punishment of a frameless bag.  I like a rigid poly sheet at a minimum, and twin stays for anything over 20 pounds or so.  Yes, the structure adds weight, but I no longer feel that weight, so any load between 25 and 50 pounds carries about the same; that’s my current upper limit.  As my hip and middle back strengthen, that limit rises.

What is your torso length? I couldn’t find the torso lengths of the backpacks at Gossamer Gear – that seems wierd not to list their torso lengths.

I have noticed that with some of the frameless backpacks, the shoulder strap attachment points need to be parallel to shoulder. If the shoulder straps wrap around, then it can lead to trapezoidal pain or shoulder soreness etc – feels like carrying a sack of potatoes. All of this is without hip belt. I would have thought GG-20 should have better hip belt than Kumo. It is possible that your pack is not full with G4-20 while it is full in a Kumo. If the pack is not full and shoulder straps wrap around, then the carry is not great is what I have noticed.

For example, I find my MLD Burn (38L) to be more comfortable with exact same stuff in MLD Prophet (48L) as my Prophet is too big for the load. However, when I carry a bear canister, MLD Prophet is extremely comfortable compared to MLD Burn.

So, it may be just that you are not filling up the pack. Try to fill it up with some foam pad or something in the GG-20 and see if it makes a difference.

Thanks for your comments about volume.   My Kumo was packed very near capacity, whereas the G4-20 does ride lower on the shoulders due to lack of gear volume.  I am going to need to rethink how I am loading the pack related to how the pack carries on the shoulder.

Russell,

These posts might help:

https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/internal-frames-for-lighter-loads/

https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/pulling-the-trigger-on-a-mchale-pack/

I like my LiteAF Curve Ultra 35L.  They are known for their comfortable, well-padded shoulder straps.  A minimalist padded hip belt is an option.  I got just the 1″ webbing belt but added the padded ZPacks hip pouches which allow a bit more weight to be transferred to my hips.  I’m comfortable at the recommended max of 20 lbs.

There is a 40L version of the Curve (still frameless) designed for 25 lbs (with the optional fully padded hip belt).

https://liteaf.com/ultralight-packs/ultra-35l-curve/

https://liteaf.com/ultralight-packs/ultra-40l-curve-frameless/

https://zpacks.com/products/padded-belt-pouches

I’m with Bonzo. For me, in order to get weight off my shoulders and spine, I have to use a pack with good structure: framed or with very solid stays. I want all the weight on my hips, carried by my legs rather than my shoulders and spine. Legs muscles are by far the most powerful and sturdy in the human body (well, maybe the heart muscle). And so I also like a comfy and non minimalist weight belt. Adding padding to shoulder straps in order to ‘soften’ the weight carried there seems backwards to me. I prefer more minimalist shoulder straps, since those are used for balance but are not weight bearing; and a well padded hip belt, since that’s where I like to carry weight.

I meant “waist belt”