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KISS, MYOG, 5 ounce Pack Frame


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Home Forums Gear Forums Make Your Own Gear KISS, MYOG, 5 ounce Pack Frame

Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 38 total)
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  • #3514701
    Daryl and Daryl
    BPL Member

    @lyrad1

    Locale: Pacific Northwest, USA, Earth

    Nope, nothing.  Please go to next post.

    #3514702
    Daryl and Daryl
    BPL Member

    @lyrad1

    Locale: Pacific Northwest, USA, Earth

    MMatereialmater

    #3514704
    Daryl and Daryl
    BPL Member

    @lyrad1

    Locale: Pacific Northwest, USA, Earth

     

    Photo immediately above shows mock-up of 3/8″ id aluminum tubing and 3/8″ nylon barbed plumbing tees.

    Assembly time = about 1 minute

    Weight = about 5 ounce

    CORRECTION
    Just used a micrometer to measure the od of 3/8″ nylon barbed tees. They are actually .05 inches larger than 3/8″ (..425″ instead of .0375″). So aluminum tubing needs to have .425 id or larger to easily fit over the tee.
    I think they add a bit to all sizes of tees so they fit flexible plastic pipe tightly

    [edit – MK]

    #3514754
    Steve M
    Spectator

    @twistedmember

    Nice, very nice. If you are continuing a build I will watch with interest. In particular how you maintain diagonal  and plane rigidity.

    Steve

    #3514785
    Daryl and Daryl
    BPL Member

    @lyrad1

    Locale: Pacific Northwest, USA, Earth

    Steve,

    ” how you maintain diagonal and plane rigidity.”

    The frame doesn’t maintain either.  The waist belt, shoulder straps and friction of pack against my back take care of that,, to the extent I need it..

    Frame is very flexible and moves with me as I walk.  The tubing-ends flex quite a lot at the tees.

    I’m showing this frame with all-aluminum tubing for durability.  I choose carbon fiber for the vertical struts of the packs I use personally.  The flexibility of the frame is one reason I can get by with carbon fiber.  Think  palm tree compared with a pine tree in high winds.

     

    YMMV

    Daryl

    .

     

    #3514836
    Paul French
    BPL Member

    @ssghawk

    Locale: Northern Texas

    Outstanding!

    5 oz with aluminum. What does it weight with CF instead of aluminum tubes?

    This makes my Stephenson clone in CF & arrow shafts pretty much a waste of time. WELL DONE !

    What does the pack that you use with your personal gear look like?

    #3514878
    Daryl and Daryl
    BPL Member

    @lyrad1

    Locale: Pacific Northwest, USA, Earth

    https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/40531/

    Paul,

    Old link above should give you some history. I’ve updated just about every aspect of the pack since this stuff was posted, however.

    Changing the aluminum vertical shafts (in this post) to carbon fiber saves about 2 ounces.  I still use aluminum for the top bar because it can get a lot of abuse that carbon fiber doesn’t like (e.g. getting hung on a nail or metal coat hook).

    The primary benefit of this MYOG pack frame design is that it weighs less than a pound, can comfortably carry at least 30 lbs and transfer all the weight to the hips. It can also maintain front-to-back balance with the addition of the front bag.

    The weak point in my design is the fragile nature of carbon fiber tubing, if used.

    There is nothing in the design of my bags that I would recommend to anyone. I suggest you start from scratch on the bags and come up with something that works for you.

    Daryl

     

    #3515464
    Daryl and Daryl
    BPL Member

    @lyrad1

    Locale: Pacific Northwest, USA, Earth

     ADD ADHESIVE BACKED INSIGNIA CLOTH COVERED CLOSED CELL FOAM SHOULDER STRAPS TO KISS FRAME (adds about 2 ounces)

     

     

     

     

     

    #3515484
    Daryl and Daryl
    BPL Member

    @lyrad1

    Locale: Pacific Northwest, USA, Earth

    #3515494
    Daryl and Daryl
    BPL Member

    @lyrad1

    Locale: Pacific Northwest, USA, Earth

    PHOTOS IMMEDIATELYABOVE SHOW A MOCK-UP ADDING A WRAP AROUND FOAM WAIST BELT TO THE KISS PACK( adds about 5 ounces)

     

    #3515576
    Paul French
    BPL Member

    @ssghawk

    Locale: Northern Texas

    Daryl,

    Is there a level above KISS such as SUPER-KISS? In the Army we would have called this the Command Sgt. Major way.

    Since today was scheduled to be only a doctor day but I still had to do 4 hours in the office to handle someone else’s emergency, I only had time to rip through this and your older post. First of all, it is pretty silly for me to even consider trying to improve your successful decades of actual testing and tuning.  I guess when I looked a your older post probably 2 years ago I was so focused on the Stephenson lilac crest 3″ strap flexible attachment between the frame(wing arms) and the body(hip belt) that I totally blew by your picture with the verticals curving toward the shape of your back as well as the flexibility built into your corner attachments.

    I don’t have the best vision and my knees are both insurance company pre-approved for metal replacements whenever I can no longer stand the pain. So your full or nearly full width front body bag scared me that I would for sure trip over something and have to be carried out. I can see, with further study today, that your design should work fine with 2 Aarn- like front packs as long as I balance the weight in the two front bags.

    And if a Carbon Fiber top Horizontal only saves 2 oz. over aluminum tubing, why risk the CF?

    I really liked the picture from behind showing the 24″ wide pack. Having done more than enough time with the very deep, “big green tick” Alice pack, I like the shallow pack keeping the load closer to my back.

    I guess you determined the distance between the verticals so that they would contact your shoulders where you wanted them to? I understand that it would add more weight and would put different loading on the verticals, but are there reasons that I could not make my verticals 16 inches apart and then put a mesh back rest like on the old Jansports?

    Thanks for the great stuff.

    Hawk

    #3515583
    Daryl and Daryl
    BPL Member

    @lyrad1

    Locale: Pacific Northwest, USA, Earth

    Paul,

    “I understand that it would add more weight and would put different loading on the verticals, but are there reasons that I could not make my verticals 16 inches apart and then put a mesh back rest like on the old Jansports?”

    I don’t think it would seriously affect the weight on the verticals.  Four more inches of cross-bar would only add a fraction of an ounce.

    Don’t see any obvious problems with having the verticals 16″ apart but every design change seems to come with unintended and unexpected consequences.  I’ve thought of doing it myself but have never done it so no experience to share.

    Haven’t tried the mesh.  Don’t care for it.  Lets cool breezes get to my always-sweaty back and cools me off too much.  So, again, no experience to share. .

    #3515664
    Daryl and Daryl
    BPL Member

    @lyrad1

    Locale: Pacific Northwest, USA, Earth

    ADD A BACK BAG TO KISS MOCK-UP (about 2800 cubic inches/45 liters, weighs about 2 ounces, about 48″ in circumference, uncoated 1.3 ounce ripstop)

    Nothing special about the bag.  It is like a big pillow case with the bottom corners boxed and a drawstring closure on the top.

    Total assembled pack as shown weighs about 13 ounces and can comfortably carry 30 lbs.  All of the is weight is transferred to the waist belt.

    Additional items can be strapped to the top bar (e.g. sleeping bag, foam pad, tent, etc.)

    A front bag can be added to the top bar to help the front/back balance of the overall load and provide easy access for some items (water, bear spray, PLB, snacks, hats, etc.)

    With the top bar additions mentioned above the pack can carry about 5000ci/80liters of stuff.

    A couple of the largest bear canisters made can fit sideways in the back bag.  A 36 can case of 12 ounce beers  can also fit in back bag.

     

     

     

     

    #3515669
    todd
    BPL Member

    @funnymo

    Locale: SE USA

    Nice to see your latest, Daryl!

    #3516111
    Paul French
    BPL Member

    @ssghawk

    Locale: Northern Texas

     

     

    Daryl,

    I was in a hurry when I said like a Jansport. (I kept typing almost my entire response and then would lose it before sending. Now I just use MS Word and copy and paste.) My actual preference is like the Stephenson combination shoulder and back mesh made with modern materials. Assuming the Monovisc knee injections that I had Monday actually work, I should be able to work my way up to 5 miles per day on the fully inclined treadmill at 3 MPH and working gradually up to 50+ lbs.in the pack. This was my exercise of choice before my knees went out. I had dropped my weight from about 225 down to 190. Then after my weight again got out of control, I switched to racing back stroke for 20-30 minutes 4-6 times per week and got down to 189. Then of course I tore my rotator cuff and now I am back to 225.

    Bottom line is that when I do that on the treadmill; I need to mop the floor afterword’s besides drinking a liter of very cold water and both me and the pack are very wet. After about a week of that the wife makes me keep the pack on the back porch since it smells so bad.

    I really like your KISS Back Bag. The only modification would be to have loops on the top to fit over the verticals and a Velcro attachment point at the bottom and possibly the middle on each vertical. That way I can back up to the pool table and rest the bag with my current load of rice sacks on the pool table and easily remove the frame with the mesh shoulder and back mesh and hip belt so I can spray it off in the shower a couple times a week.

    Love your ideas man.

    #3516127
    Daryl and Daryl
    BPL Member

    @lyrad1

    Locale: Pacific Northwest, USA, Earth

    Paul,

    I also sweat more than average.  A lot more.

    So I regularly remove the bag and run it through the washer and dryer.  That’s part of the reason I use uncoated fabric for my bags.  Don’t have to worry about coatings coming off.

    The mock-up bag can be removed and put back on in about a minute by cutting and reinstalling 4 zip ties.

    #3516129
    Daryl and Daryl
    BPL Member

    @lyrad1

    Locale: Pacific Northwest, USA, Earth

    The KISS mock-up straight vertical tubing would fit my wife’s straight vertical back well.  But Daryl’s back is shaped like a turtle so I bent/bowed the mock-up tubing slightly to keep him happy.  Please see photos.

     

    #3516137
    Sam Farrington
    BPL Member

    @scfhome

    Locale: Chocorua NH, USA

    Daryl,

    Thanks for the new pics and update with the link to a prior thread.  After a while, the memory fades, and it is great to be able to review your design once again.  It is a KISS triumph.

    #3516163
    Jerry Adams
    BPL Member

    @retiredjerry

    Locale: Oregon and Washington

    thanks for the updates, good to see design evolving : )

    #3516199
    Daryl and Daryl
    BPL Member

    @lyrad1

    Locale: Pacific Northwest, USA, Earth

    KISS PACK-AIRPLANE MODE

    Here’s the KISS Mock-up partially disassembled and placed in a stuff sack that’s about 22 inches long.  I believe that allows it to be carried inside most carry-on luggage.  Weight, with stuff sack, is about 14 ounces.

    Disassembly/assembly  to this degree takes a few minutes and involves the cutting and reinstalling of two zip ties.  Zip ties can be cut with a nail clippers.  I believe nail clippers are allowed on planes these days.

    #3516322
    Paul French
    BPL Member

    @ssghawk

    Locale: Northern Texas

    Daryl,

    I bet that some newbees at TSA struggle trying to figure out how this could be made into a weapon.

    22″ long verticals? As I recall in one of your old posts, the verticals came up to about your ears where the front pouch attached thus keeping no weight on your shoulder.

    What is the height of you mock up bag?

    Great stuff.

    #3516359
    Daryl and Daryl
    BPL Member

    @lyrad1

    Locale: Pacific Northwest, USA, Earth

    Paul ,

    “I bet that some newbees at TSA struggle trying to figure out how this could be made into a weapon.”

    Good point.  TSA spent a few minutes examining a bullet shaped whistle in my carry-on on a recent trip.

    “22″ long verticals? As I recall in one of your old posts, the verticals came up to about your ears where the front pouch attached thus keeping no weight on your shoulder.”

    Good memory.  The verticals on that frame were about 26+” if I recall correctly.   This mock-up doesn’t fit any particular person.  Just happened to be the tubing I had laying around.  My short waisted wife’s frame has 18″ verticals, for comparison.

    “What is the height of you mock up bag?”

    With the drawstring top cinched up all the way the bag is about 20″ tall (12″x12″x20″=about 2880 cubic inches)

    “Great stuff.”

    Thanks for the encouragement.

    #3516375
    Mike B
    BPL Member

    @highwarlok

    Locale: Colorado

    Daryl do you use the Nylon or the Polyester version of Insignia cloth?

    Seems most places have the poly but I saw the nylon on http://mazusailcloth.com/products_accessories_insignia.html and wondering is one is better then the other.

    Mike

    #3516417
    Daryl and Daryl
    BPL Member

    @lyrad1

    Locale: Pacific Northwest, USA, Earth

    Mike,

    I’ve only used Challenge Sailcloth polyester insignia cloth weighing about 5+ ounces per square yard (10+ ounces with paper backing).  No experience with nylon insignia cloth or any of the insignia cloths at your link.

    I’ve used nylon ripstop repair tape, however. It was lighter and the resulting shoulder strap was less stiff,  less substantial and less durable but still quite serviceable.  The tape was only 2″ wide, however, so that was a negative.

    #3516566
    Paul French
    BPL Member

    @ssghawk

    Locale: Northern Texas

    Daryl,

    Since you pretty much have figured out the KISS approach on everything, how did you bend the tubing?

Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 38 total)
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