Katabatic Flex 22 & Western Mountaineering Terralite 25* Questions

Eddie –

I’ve never owned a WM bag, but I own a Katabatic Alsek Elite 22 (long/wide) and a Katabatic Flex 40 (reg/wide). I’m 6’0, 175lbs. Both bags are exceptional and very conservatively rated. At one point I had an Enlightened Equipment 40 and the Flex 40 next to each other and the loft difference was laughable. The Katabatic blew the EE away.

I sleep mostly on my stomach and I love the Alsek Elite because of the underside band. I’ve been in snow without attaching it to my pad and had almost no issues with draft. It snugs up soooo well under you. The Pertex is luxurious, the draft tube is thick and amazing, and the collar snaps/pad clips are super high quality. If you can kick the budget up to the Elite bags, I would. If not, the Flex bags are still amazing.

As for sizing. Definitely get the wide and don’t look back. The long is LONG. At 6ft I probably didn’t need it but I like to sleep with my arms folded under my head. At 5’9 I think you’d be very happy with a Wide/Reg.

Good luck!

<p style=”text-align: left;”>Katabatic quilts are conservatively rated. For quilts in general, definitely go wide. Although very warm, I did have draft problems with my sawatch (reg) when side sleeping. Flex would be nice for the versatility and wearing the quilt around camp.</p>

Thanks for the info. It’s not so much budget focusing on the Flex (though that’s a component), it’s that Katabatic lists the Flex as 2” wider in the hip and foot, so, more of a precaution, really.

And the more I think about the Terralite, the more I think that while wide enough to be super comfy, the extra amount of dead space would create cold spots, and for the temp range I’m looking at, I may need to choose different WM bag for a more equal size comparison.

Have you looked at the feathered friend series of bags with the full zippers. They can either be used as a full quilt or zipped up into a hoodless bag.

Another data point – I’m 5’10” and 180lbs and the WM TerraLite 6′ fits me pretty close to perfectly. Very roomy inside, but not so much so as to be inefficient. Everything people say about the impeccable quality of WM gear is true in my experience. I don’t have experience with Katababic products, but I’ve heard and read much the same about their level of workmanship as well.

I sleep on my stomach at times, and have not felt restricted at all in the TerraLite. I’m not sure if they recommend sizing up for stomach sleepers, but for me – not necessary.

I think both companies are pretty conservative in their temperature ratings, based on my actual experience with my TerraLite and comparing fill weights/loft across various manufacturers. I think your comparison is legit.

I don’t want to derail this thread, but I am actually considering selling my TerraLite (actually it’s my wife’s bag, but for medical reasons she is not able to backpack for the foreseeable future). @eddie-s-2-2  If you’re interested, let me know. :)

Ok, well I have the terralite and a palisade, and a feathered friends flicker. All are of a great standard. I love the palisade but not pushing the temp limits as I just think I move around too much to retain heat.

WM is great with its ratings even with the terralite, and you can get they have already factored in the extra space into their rating. The fact it is roomy and can also unzip the bottom like a quilt is a huge bonus in terms of flexibility.

If you can stand the extra weight I think the flicker and terralite offer more flexibility. If you ok with quilts overall then the Katabatic gear is well made and has faultless construction.

All three are of the highest quality. Not sure I can answer your questions more specifically. In terms of snow, you should probably make sure you are out of it altogether. Getting your bag wet in freezing conditions can easily lead to problems of the terminal kind.

Thanks all for the replies.

@stumpjumper – I see your Flex has an extra 3″ in hip room & 1″ in foot box over your Alsek.  Is it obvious when inside the bags?  I’m wondering if the differential cut of the Alsek offsets the wider width of the Flex, making them seem just the same width on the inside…

@giachett – Is your Sawatch a wide?  If not, do you think that would have made the difference in the drafts?

@landrover – I hadn’t looked into Feathered Friends, but doing so now, I see that the Flicker wide still might not be wide enough.  Looks like I’d need to go the Penguin or Puffin route, and for the temp ratings, they look 1/2 to 1 lb heavier than the Terralite, though not sure why, as the FFs look a bit narrower overall.  Is there something I’m missing?

@fox212 – WM got back to me and didn’t recommend sizing up in length, so, pretty much what you said.

All – I’m still debating which route to go with (quilt or bag), as I have no real world experience with a quilt.  I have cowboy camped in a bag in the southern Rockies, southern & central CA, even up at Sonora Pass, but never been snowed or rained on; however, I do plan on doing some eastern trails and hopefully some AT sections within the next few years (never camped east of the Mississippi).

I had been pretty much set on getting a quilt when I came across this:  https://youtu.be/1khbwXc5OG4

…which is why I started backtracking on thinking that a quilt might be my answer.  The lady shooting this video was using a quilt, and didn’t seem to mention any issues with it, but it got me thinking about the possible drawbacks.  Maybe I’m overthinking the whole issue, but at least I’m certain that whatever I get, it’s going to be a wide!

-Eddie

I wouldn’t get caught up over 3″. The differential cut and the underside band make a huge difference and the Alsek Elite feels just as wide. More to the point, the Elite design is just much more thermally efficient. The quilt snugs up for you (because of the band) so there’s no need to worry about extra inches of width that you’d need to ‘pin’ under your body parts. My first quilt was a specially made Hammock Gear 68″ wide because I was worried about the same issues…. In the end I had far more problems with draft in that then the much narrower Alsek. Personally, I don’t like pad straps and I don’t like constantly pinning a quilt underneath me. Katabatic Elite = problem solved.

My Flex-40 is my summer/spring bag so I was less worried about getting that good underside seal and I wanted the ability to completely open it up and drape it over me during hot summer trips.

The combo will serve me well for the next 10-15 yrs. I don’t even look at other bags/quilts now. :)

Well, it’s four months later, and I haven’t made up my mind.  I was waiting on a sale on the WM bag (Backcountry’s 20% off), and now that it’s here, I’m still trying to decide if I can do something like the Alsek for the ~3.5 oz weight savings over the Terralite.

In all honesty, I haven’t even tried sleeping ‘quilt-like’, by using my current bag open and sleeping directly on my mattress… though it doesn’t seem very comfortable for stomach/side sleeping… but I don’t know.  Seems most folks here who have made the move are content enough to state they’re not going back to a traditional bag.

Any thoughts are appreciated.

I hate to break the news to you – but the backcountry.com 20% of doesn’t apply to Western Mountaineering.  Try adding one to your basket and applying the discount – you get a reject message.

As far as the Katabatic quilt vs WM Terralite – I don’t have experience with either, but consider this – if you get the heavier option, over time as you lighten your load and backpack more you will inevitably get back to the question of quilts and may end up buying a quilt too anyway.  Or, you could go with the quilt now, find out from experience if quilts are for you and if it doesn’t work you will have no trouble selling a nearly new Katabatic quilt on BPL.

@eddie-s-2-2, I have the 6′ Flex 22 in wide.  i am a smidge over 5’9″ and about 160 and a side / back sleeper.  The wide sometimes feels a bit too roomy.  I have also used the WM Ultralite and like it but it is quite a bit more restricting.

I had been pretty much set on getting a quilt when I came across this:  https://youtu.be/1khbwXc5OG4

…which is why I started backtracking on thinking that a quilt might be my answer.  The lady shooting this video was using a quilt, and didn’t seem to mention any issues with it, but it got me thinking about the possible drawbacks.  Maybe I’m overthinking the whole issue, but at least I’m certain that whatever I get, it’s going to be a wide!

If I’m going to be in an enclosed, double wall tent with a reasonably solid inner, I would be pretty happy in winter conditions with either a bag or a quilt (aside from the issue of drafts)

The problem in that video is spindrift. I wouldn’t go out in the winter in a single wall shelter, or open-sided huts like that, without at least a light bivy, regardless of whether I had a bag or a quilt.

The problem in that video is spindrift.
ABSOLUTELY!

This is what you can get if you do not block spindrift 100%

Cheers

@dhartley — You’re absolutely right.  Last fall, during BC’s last 20% off sale, I asked if it applied to WM, and got a yes.  Unfortunately, I had holiday gifts to purchase, and had to pass up the sale.  This time, WM is not part of the sale… but they did offer a 10% discount.  Oh well…

And I get what you mean about going with what I likely will want eventually, which is something I constantly struggle with, whether it’s buying the affordable mountain bike, slowly upgrading nearly all the components, then finally upgrading to the better one after having already spend too much, or with anything else .  Wasting money is never a goal, but jumping in both feet first is also not without risk.

@delvxe — I am a bit heavier than you (age does that).  In my younger days, I fit into an intermediate cold sleeping bag without thought.  Not anymore.  Based on your observations, it sounds like the 6′ wide would be perfect for me (if I go that route).

@bikeme — That was the one video that got me thinking about drafts.  I’ve worked in those conditions, for two months on the eastern shoreline of Lake Ontario during lake effect snow season (doing LE snow research), but never had to sleep in it.

I’d said I’ve never tried quilt-style sleeping, but did give it a try a couple of nights ago, in my Mountain Hardware Lamina 35.  It was drizzling, and just above the limits of the bag, and with it unzipped (granted, no shock cords keeping it cinched on me), I kept fiddling with it, to keep it tucked in… that is, until my cat convinced me it was time for us go to inside.  I was thinking I’m just not sure a quilt is in my future, but SO many people are able to make it work for them just fine.  Must be something I’m not doing right, or maybe something designed for that purpose is different altogether…

What made you hesitant about quilts in that test run?

@stephbing — Man, I don’t really think I know.

I don’t have a ton of backpacking experience.  I was a Marine infantryman back in the ’80, where we only used ice mats (flat closed-cell foam) and ICW bags.  Rarely used our canvas shelter halves, so, mostly cowboy camped.  I remember times on Sonora Pass in October when I was breathing out of a hole only small enough for my mouth.  I suppose I just can’t imagine how people do it with a quilt in something like that.  And I’m not a cold sleeper.

The other night, I kept fiddling with my Lamina quilt-style (which is already too restrictive zipped up) just to keep any drafts out (mid-upper 30s).  Otherwise, I was warm.  I do need to ditch as much weight as I can, because I’ve already had a torn meniscus, and my 53 year-old knees are super important to me if I’m going to tackle any one of these long trails (which is why I’m always using poles now).

I HATE making purchases that aren’t well thought-out.  That’s it.  I have to know I’ve done my best to look at all the pros and cons (for my personal style/taste) before making the decision… which does not mean it won’t be the wrong one, anyway…

Thanks for your help, folks.

Buy the WM and you’ll never look back…you’ll just warm, comfy, and happy

Tons  of rav reviews tell the story

And when you have bought a good quilt or SB, buy a better mat as well. Almost half your heat loss at night is downwards.

Cheers

“Almost half your heat loss at night is downwards.”

Link?

No link, just basic physics.

Cheers

Alright.  I did it.  Just ordered the Katabatic Palisade 30 in reg/wide.  I do appreciate all the advice and recommendations.  I got a Palisade rather than the Alsek, mostly based on the conservative rating of their bags (based on testimonials).  I live in the desert southwest, in area similar to the southern terminus of the CDT.  Most of my backpacking is in not too extreme overnight lows, so, I figured a well-built, conservatively-rated 30* quilt and a new mattress might do the trick. Currently I have the Klymit Static V, which is about 1.-something R-value, so might look at the SL insulated Klymit version (love the 23-inch width), or something else;

Regardless, I have made the decision to try a quilt.  We’ll see.

Thanks all!

You won’t regret it. I’ve got the Palisade and I’ve used it down to the teens with an Xtherm and a GG Thinlite along with a down jacket, down pants and down booties. We were next to the lake with howling winds and I wasn’t too terrible when the wind died down. It’s definitely perfect for three season use and with the quilt. The attachment system just works and I’ve been pretty happy with the quilt after three years and still going strong!

I got my Palisade in on Saturday.  Then ordered a Terralite on Sunday.  Just came in.  I had to compare the two.  I think they’re both top-quality bags.  I’ll be selling or returning the Palisade (whichever comes first).  Just like some are owners and some are renters, maybe some people are just bag people…. and I believe I’m one of them.  Thanks all for the advice and opinions!