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JMT and Ursack? what are people doing?


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Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 41 total)
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  • #3421296
    Sam Sockwell
    BPL Member

    @sockwellsam

    Yes I know that officially JMT is a stated no-go for the Ursack

    And yet it is OK elsewhere

    So, on the ground, what is happening?  Are people carrying Ursacks and rangers are looking the other way?  Or are people still all carrying bear vaults etc?

    #3421306
    Nick Gatel
    BPL Member

    @ngatel

    Locale: Southern California

    Most people I know follow the rules.

    #3421315
    Ken Thompson
    BPL Member

    @here

    Locale: Right there

    “are rangers are looking the other way?”

    giggles.

    #3421318
    Greg Mihalik
    Spectator

    @greg23

    Locale: Colorado

    Are you asking about the Rules along the JMT, or the Efficacy of the Ursack?

    The Rules require canisters only on the east side of Whitney, the Rae Lakes Basin, and north of Donahue Pass. You’ll need to have fast legs, and take the relevant pages of the Compendium if you have to make your case to a poorly trained ranger. (As was my case when talking to the 2011 Superintendent at the Interagency Complex in Lone Pine.)

    The Efficacy seems to be highly user dependent.

    #3421319
    Sam Sockwell
    BPL Member

    @sockwellsam

    did JMT in 2012 and had basically no interaction at all with rangers other than saying hello to a few

    Have no idea about enforcement of no ursack use, even though of course it is “against the rules”

    #3421324
    Nick Gatel
    BPL Member

    @ngatel

    Locale: Southern California

    The purpose of a bear canister is not to protect your food, its purpose is to protect bears.

    #3421326
    Sam Sockwell
    BPL Member

    @sockwellsam

    I think most hikers on this site are familiar with the concept of a food reward for bears, as it applies to what hikers bring to the wilderness, and its potential adverse impact on bears

    #3421327
    Pedestrian
    BPL Member

    @pedestrian

    “I think most hikers on this site are familiar with the concept of a food reward for bears, as it applies to what hikers bring to the wilderness, and its potential adverse impact on bears”

    The way your initial post was written would probably cause one to question if you had the understanding you now claim to have (“potential adverse impact on bears”).

    Hence the response from Nick. You can’t have your cake and eat it too.

     

     

     

    #3421329
    Sam Sockwell
    BPL Member

    @sockwellsam

    reading back over initial post it is hard for me to know if I am a biologist specializing in human intrusion into wildlife zones, or not. But if someone’s interpretation is that the post is by some moron who thinks bear proofing food etc in the wild is to protect my bag of peanuts and channa masala, I can live with that.  It just happens not to be the case.

    #3421330
    Justin Baker
    BPL Member

    @justin_baker

    Locale: Santa Rosa, CA

    The Ursack has been proven to be effective at protecting your food against bears. The issue brought up by this thread is not hikers being irresponsible with their food storage, but hikers choosing to use a proven effective method of food storage that is technically not legal on certain parts of the John Muir Trail.

    #3421334
    Sam Sockwell
    BPL Member

    @sockwellsam

    I was happy to take ursack majors along the Teton Crest Trail this summer.  Thus far it sounds as though people follow the rules and use bear vaults- as I did in 2012-for the JMT

    #3421337
    Bob Shuff
    BPL Member

    @slbear

    Locale: SoCal

    I subscribed to this thread for trail info.  Thinking about doing a partial or full JMT hike in one of the next two years.

    “The Rules require canisters only on the east side of Whitney, the Rae Lakes Basin, and north of Donahue Pass.”

    I think many familiar with the Ursack know it does not qualify in Yosemite, but if you were going to start and end a JMT hike elsewhere, would it be possible?  Maybe Red’s Meadow near Mammoth Lakes to somewhere north of the Rae Lakes Basin?  I’m not interested in using it where it’s not allowed.

    Trying to keep it informative…Slbear

    #3421340
    Owen M
    BPL Member

    @harryhood04

    Yes, Ursacks are allowed along the rest of the JMT, with the exceptions of: YNP, the extended Rae Lakes region, and the area around Whitney.  Here’s a map of SEKI’s rules: https://www.nps.gov/seki/planyourvisit/upload/FoodStorageRequirements_8x11_20150729-2.pdf

    So if you started a hike at Red’s Meadow and hiked out somewhere north of Woods Creek (keeping in mind that you couldn’t camp between the JMT and the top of Bishop Pass without a canister) you could use an Ursack.
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    #3421349
    J R
    BPL Member

    @jringeorgia

    reading back over initial post it is hard for me to know if I am a biologist specializing in human intrusion into wildlife zones, or not. But if someone’s interpretation is that the post is by some moron who thinks bear proofing food etc in the wild is to protect my bag of peanuts and channa masala, I can live with that.  It just happens not to be the case.

    Agreed, the purpose of bear proofing wasn’t addressed at all in your initial post. All that the initial post deals with is that you know the ursack is officially a no-go but you wonder if you can use it anyway.

    #3421359
    HkNewman
    BPL Member

    @hknewman

    Locale: The West is (still) the Best

    Around the Whitney area a couple months ago, I was asked a couple times by rangers if I had my bear canister and others said they were checked.

    #3421363
    Clue M
    BPL Member

    @cluemonger

    Now that we established you are cool,  just sleep with your food and it’s all good, but a ranger will escort you to the nearest trailhead.

     

    You have to defend the ursack more than a canister. It’s mostly wishful thinking that the bear isn’t getting a food reward if these aren’t defended.

    #3421377
    Jane Baack
    BPL Member

    @janeb

    Two-three weeks ago my husband and I were in Lyell Canyon. A Yosemite ranger came hurrying along and asked if he could “tap” our packs. He now checks for bear canisters by tapping the middle of the pack to feel for a solid canister. Why? Some backpackers say they have a canister but are using an Ursack illegally or some are putting only a lid of a canister in their pack, the ranger looks in and sees a lid and is fooled into thinking a complete canister is enclosed. They’re not happy about these situations because they don’t like to hassle backpackers. Why was he hurrying? Because it was reported that there was a bear-human “incident” at an area further along in Lyell Canyon where there are established campsites up off the trail (I think going up to Evelyn and Ireland Lakes) and the bear “stole” a backpack full of food, no canister. So the ranger was sent out from T. Meadows to investigate, etc. etc. Avoidable if we all follow the rules————or backpack in other locations.

    #3421383
    Nick Gatel
    BPL Member

    @ngatel

    Locale: Southern California

    When I started backpacking there were almost no rules. You could do just about anything you wanted. No such thing as a permit to hike, including Whitney. You needed a fishing license to fish and that was about it. There was no such thing as a designated Wilderness Area either.

    I dislike the rules too — probably more than most people — and generally just avoid areas with too many rules or permitting requirements. But when required, I try to follow them because I know non-compliance will only lead to more rules and more limited access, even though I feel I have the knowledge, experience, and skill to avoid a bear encounter — but there is no guarantee I will avoid one. Canisters are much better than being forced to camp in a designated area with fixed, man-made, bear resistant storage solutions.

    Bear canisters aren’t going away. We might as well get use to them because more and more areas are going to require them.

    #3421388
    Kenneth Keating
    BPL Member

    @kkkeating

    Locale: Sacramento, Calif

    For the OP, I carry a canister as it keeps the food safe from bears and rodents, it gets used as a seat, and it’s the required rules.  Even it’s not the in the rules  I bring the canister as I’ve had too many past issues with rodents in the Sierra’s.  In Yosemite, the rangers are tapping on your backpack to ensure you’re carrying a canister, along with checking your permit.

    I just don’t know if the canister is used to protect the rodents from the food or if it’s the other way around!

    #3458660
    J-F B
    Spectator

    @imasphere

    Yes, Ursacks are allowed along the rest of the JMT, with the exceptions of: YNP, the extended Rae Lakes region, and the area around Whitney.

    From what I see on that map, only the Ray Lakes area and the areas south of Whitney and Whitney portal have canister regulations. You could easily avoid the Ray Lakes Loop by using the Middle Fork Kings River trail and the Simpson Meadow Trail but there is just a small portion to the south that requires canisters on the Avalanche Pass Trail. Does anyone know if you can still legally use the Avalanche Pass Trail if you are not planning on sleeping in the canister regulation area? I am planning a southbound JMT hike for next year starting at June Lake and would seriously consider this option if it meant that I could carry an Ursack while staying on the legal side of things.

    #3458681
    Adam G
    BPL Member

    @adamg

    When I hiked a few years ago, I found a handwritten sign posted on a trail sign near the Bighorn Plateau:

    “John: I have confiscated your food. Please come to the ranger station to receive your fine and to let me walk you out of the backcountry.”

    Don’t be John.

    #3458792
    Hanz B
    BPL Member

    @tundra-thrasher-ouch-man-2

    +1 to John.

    #3458796
    jscott
    BPL Member

    @book

    Locale: Northern California

    Just pony up for a Bearikade and be done with it.

    #3458808
    Matthew / BPL
    Moderator

    @matthewkphx

    I don’t love carrying a bear canister but it makes a nice seat and actually really convenient.

    When people bring up the topic of ursacks in the Sierra I always wonder what you would tie them too. The trees tend to be large in diameter and then there are all the great places to camp above treeline…

    #3458821
    Cameron M
    BPL Member

    @cameronm-aka-backstroke

    Locale: Los Angeles

    I went over this subject at carefully at length with several rangers last summer and got a definitive answer: It does not matter if you hike through a canister required area but don’t sleep there, or if there happens to be food lockers in that area. If you even SET FOOT in one of the areas, you must have a canister. That is the law, and that is how they are policing it. I don’t think it is realistic to do the JMT and not pass though the extensive Rae Lakes area.

    I also uncovered one incorrect notion that exists in several posts and I think it was also on one official web page I found: It is not true that there are any lockers that are “reserved” for thru hikers. Anyone can use a locker, anywhere.

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