It’s Time to Talk About Campfires

[obx hiker]

Woodford Reserve: A very fine use of corn.

Corn along with the potato and sugar cane and cotton. Native American.

“Corn or maize was actually created or hybridized in the Tehuacan valley @ Monte Alban in Oaxaca, Mexico by native peoples by about 10,000 years ago. They used many generations of selective breeding to transform a wild teosinte grass with small grains into the rich source of food that is modern Zea mays or corn.”

Now the major staple grain and the only major staple more or less created by man.

But that’s enough drifting for one thread. No quibble with esbit and alcool stoves but as a 10% addition to gasoline? Better used as food; tacos, tortillas, on the cob, shoe-peg, white, pudding, corn cakes, polenta, grits!

[AK Granola]

This is an untrue statement: “OK for you guys in Alaska where nothing is flammable.” 254,633 acres burned this year was low, for sure, compared to say 2019 when 2.5 million acres burned in Alaska. But wildfire here is an ever present threat in summer. Always has been, and of course the risk will grow with climate change. We had a few close calls to my town this summer. The fire risk means bans of some activities some of the time, not all of the activities all of the time. I’d simply prefer that public land managers use science and data for decision-making, and not panic and overreaction. Most of our fires are lightning-caused, so may as well tell the sky there’s a ban on.

[DAN-Y]

I camped at Bastrop State Campground in Texas a few months ago and was surprised to learn of this rule:

 

Firewood
Downed dead wood offers food and shelter to wildlife and provides essential nutrients for the soil. Please do not gather firewood.

The park had firewood for sale at the main office, $2.00 per piece.

I started burning hardwood wood pellets instead of regular fire wood long ago. A 40 pound bag of pellets costs $6.00

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CoLrW3sqaaY&feature=youtu.be

[obx hiker]

I think it’s been that way in the greater SW for quite awhile. We used to stop and collect firewood from road maintenance work before going into the backcountry of the Needles through Beef Basin to the drive-up sites like Bobby Jo or Devils Kitchen all the way back in the 90’s. Got checked by the rangers too if one came by. There’s a nice little burn site at the junction in the Salt Creek trail where the trail forks off to Angel Arch. Campfire gone bad. Burned a lot of the big Cottonwood canopy. Used to be a great spot to camp. Great rock art panel near that spot. The Proud Man Panel.

[DAN-Y]

Great rock art panel near that spot.

Looks like a family gathering around a campfire bbq ring

 

[obx hiker]

Lot going on there! Looks like Newspaper rock.

[obx hiker]

Looking down on the burned site from the ledge with the rock art. Burn continued up and down canyon

 

 

[Bonzo]

Like trails, junction signs and bridges small existing fire rings are part of LNT camping.

 

If you really want no trace, why are there trails?

It’s interesting, how so many people don’t complain about certain things, yet are willing to die upon the hill of others.  Trails themselves are a scar upon the landscape, as are the roads that lead to them…yet this defacement is accepted as necessary, and the argument from principle dies with the acceptance.  The fact of the matter is this:

…there really is no such thing as wilderness, nowhere is “untrammeled by man.” Humans have gone everywhere.

Well-said, and true…and being true, the goal must not be to narrow our focus to the point of losing it entirely.  The entire principle of “Leave No Trace” was never meant to be taken literally: it is a catchphrase, designed to be memorable, and designed to recall the necessity of minimizing our further environmental and site-specific impact upon a world that we have crossed in every sense of the word.

The park had firewood for sale at the main office, $2.00 per piece.

I live in an area that’s intermittently under threat from wildfire: the current time is one of those periods, so I haven’t been building campfires recently.  Over the weekend, however, I wound up in a state park that wasn’t under any sort of burn restrictions: thus, it was nice to have a campfire on a surprisingly and unseasonably-cool evening.  I used twigs that had fallen into the campsite and firewood that I collected per park regulations, and confined my tiny inferno to an existing rock ring.  A passing shower during the night double-checked my coal-extinguishing, and a few fallen leaves had covered up the small remains by the time I packed and left.  I enjoyed my time with friends, felt invigorated and ready to be back out and about, and worked out a few of my existential problems.  It was good for both my mental and physical health.

ANYONE these “climate change days” who builds a campfire when backpacking should QUIT backpacking and go directly to counseling.

“Should” is a strange word.  Although not intended to do so, it often speaks more about its user than its target.

Which had a longer lasting hit on the environment, a fire ring or the network of foot trails leading to the campsite?

Solid question.

[Jerry Adams]

“A passing shower during the night double-checked my coal-extinguishing”

when forest fire risk is low, I’ll often have a fire, then let it burn to coals and go to bed, watching those coals

I know this is improper.  Theoretically possible for it to burn out of control.  I should extinguish with water.  But if the ground is wet and there’s nothing flammable near the fire the risk is low.  I would feel terrible if it ever started a forest fire.

I’ve encounter other people’s fires that they left burning and put them out.

Once, I encountered someone’s fire that started burning the roots of a tree.  That was difficult to put out.

 

[DAN-Y]

“A passing shower during the night double-checked my coal-extinguishing”

A cold/cool front usually accompanies rain clouds. Wind usually accompanies the cold front.

It happened to me 1 time. I was camped at the top of a hill about a 1,000 feet from the Mississippi river, clear view of the river. At dusk my campfire was down to glowing coals, time to get ready to call it a day.  I was in my tent brushing my teeth, cold front came in with it’s accompanying wind off the river right up the hill and blew hot coals right outta the fire ring onto the gravel drive near where I was parked. Sparks flying high into the air, so bright it lit up the inside of my tent as if it were daytime. Scared the daylights outta me.  A lesson learned. Always drown your campfire coals when finished. That was my experience, my lesson learned. I always drown my campfire remains…..always! I sleep good knowing it’s completely out.

[Bob F]

“Honey, I got a great bottle of wine. Let’s have a romantic evening around the air duct.” Said no one ever.

[Bonzo]

Honey, I got a great bottle of wine. Let’s have a romantic evening around the air duct.

I’m using that line tonight.

[Mike M]

I just tried it out on my wife, she said I need counseling.

[Josh J]

LOL, LOL

[Josh J]

My wife said I need counseling as well

[jscott]

 

 

There’s always candlelight, guys. For when pg and e cuts the power because of wildfires.

 

actually these numbers from just now are a big improvement from over the last month or so:

 

real-time USA city ranking

#
CITY
US AQI
1
Virginia City Highlands, Nevada
421
2
Minden, Nevada
360
3
Carson city, Nevada
355
4
South Lake Tahoe, California
353
5
Virginia City, Nevada
342
6
Johnson Lane, Nevada
334
7
Kingsbury, Nevada
330
8
Douglas, Nevada
313
9
Hornbrook, California
237
10
Incline Village, Nevada

[BlackHatGuy]

NM – unnecessary thread drift.

[Jon Fong / Flat Cat Gear]

Way too funny!  My 2 cents

[Ben Kilbourne]

I’m sorry for writing this article? You’re welcome? I honestly don’t know.

[Bonzo]

I’m sorry for writing this article? You’re welcome? I honestly don’t know.

I would call it a success, and a lesson in being careful: you never know when your topics are going flare up and get out of control.

[Mike M]

@Ben Kilbourne  I think it was a very timely and important article personally.

The fact that a few folks appear to sit in a very high seat, doesn’t detract from the importance of the topic at all.

There are certainly going to be a lot of times that a campfire (or twig/esbit/etc stoves for that matter) are going to be a no go.  But just as certainly, there will be a lot of times when a campfire would be a go.

If you do decide on a campfire, be especially cautious and vigilant.

 

[Paul Wagner]

In the last few days, most of the national forests in the Sierra Nevada have outlawed all fires except for contained gas stoves for backpackers. That will continue through the fall, I would guess.

Here’s a typical notice, from the Inyo NF:

Fire Restrictions are in effect August 24, 2021 until further notice:

Due to increased fire activity throughout California and the northwest, demand for firefighting resources, to protect natural resources and provide for public safety, the following acts are prohibited within the Inyo National Forest.

Building, maintaining, attending, or using a fire, campfire, or stove fire.
Visitors  with a valid California Campfire Permit are not exempt from the prohibitions contained in this Order. However, they may use a portable stove or lantern using gas, jellied petroleum, or pressurized liquid fuel.

[obx hiker]

Why is there a seeming sense of despair about the course of this thread?

I really appreciated this comment:

“I’m glad that you do…and just so it’s perfectly clear: my questions to you have been made in order to better understand you, and – if desired – to afford you more opportunities to express and clarify your opinion.  Whether or not you and I agree is irrelevant; what is important is that we continue the dialogue and each attempt to see from the perspective of the other.  After all, is that not the core purpose of this thread?”

Hey some people are concerned about the risks of campfires. Given the current summer and the immediate past summer that’s pretty understandable. We even had a couple of air warning days here on the farthest east coast this summer.

And plenty of people love campfires. Count me in that long line.

I read Ben’s article twice and it seems to me the idea was given recent events and the way things are going it’s worth thinking carefully about campfires. If you like one, and I do; you might want to especially take this to heart and hopefully we won’t see wholesale, one size fits all, across the board bureaucratically blind to all nuance type bans.

Given the way everything else seems to be going these days that may be a long shot.

[jscott]

nm

[obx hiker]

Draco, also called Drako or Drakon, was the first recorded legislator of Athens in Ancient Greece. He replaced the prevailing system of oral law and blood feud by a written code to be enforced only by a court of law. So lay down the law!

And I always figured you were sorta Scottish.   ;)

Hey if I lived in California I’d be pretty darned focused on fires. I also remember posts from the big fire that took out Kat’s house and lots lots more and how bad it got in the Bay area. It is and ought to be a touchy subject. Meantime we’re gradually washing away; but damned if it isn’t a beautiful world still.

[Author]

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