iPhone 7 vs. compact enthusiast camera?

[Yoyo]

Does anyone have thoughts on the new iPhone 7 / 7+ vs. compact enthusiast cameras with 1″ sensors such as the Canon G9x ii or the RX100 series?  I have an old iPhone 5 and its video / picture capabilities are sub-par.  But I keep hearing good things about the new iPhone camera.  I will be carry a phone anyway for GPS and to make calls.  I do appreciate good quality video / pictures, though.  I’m wondering if it’s worth the extra 7-10 oz.  The other consideration is that using one’s phone as the go-to camera will reduce battery life on the phone, yes?  For a longer thru-hike such as the one I am currently planning this means that I would need a larger power bank to keep my phone charged.  The question is: Would the increased weight of a dedicated camera be offset by the need for a heavier power bank to keep the phone charged?  And speaking of power banks, is it preferable to use spare camera batteries rather than external power bank?  Has anyone analyzed the weight savings carefully here?  Thoughts?

[David Thomas]

When I see ” hru-hike” and “power bank” together, it gives me pause.  AT?  Sure, recharge in town every few days.  I can see using a power bank.

PCT?  There are longer segments between resupplies and more of the resupply points are off-the-grid and I think you should seriously consider a solar array so you can produce power as you go.

Regarding extra camera batteries, get on eBay and see how much $$ they are direct from Shanghai / Hong Kong.  I’ve gotten some for $1.57 each.  At that price, they are potentially a consumable and you can just mail them to yourself in your resupply boxes.  And skip the large power back, the solar cell and not spend time in town recharging stuff.

Yes, using your phone as a camera will save the weight of the GoPro.  But it’ll need an Otterbox to be anywhere near as weatherproof as a GoPro.  I know the iPhone7 is more water resistant than previous models, but still, GoPros take a licking and keeping on clicking.

And, yes, using your iPhone as a camera, and much more so for video, will drain the battery much more quickly.  An iPhone is much better for reviewing your video (and considering reshooting it) and especially for editing it (if you plan to post from the trail, which is something you young whippersnappers like to do).

If you want an actual comparison of weights of the options (solar panel, external battery, replacement camera batteries), you’ll need to provide an estimate of hours/day of use (with watt-hours if you know it), the most days between resupplies you need, and the most days between grid power that you plan.  Because the answer is going to be something like:

1-3 days between charging opportunities: Bring a 2-port charger and short charging cables.

4-7 days between charging opportunities: Bring an external battery pack or include charged camera batteries in your resupply (and cables and wall chargers).

8-15 days: more charged camera batteries in your resupply boxes or a solar panel.

2+ weeks: solar panel.

And even better than reading specs on battery capacity, watt-hours, and hours-of-video, is to go use it.  Use your phone on long day hikes to do the kind of video you expect to shoot on the thru-hike.  Check your battery usage.  That real-world, individualized data is more useful than any manufacturer’s specifications.

[Yoyo]

Thanks, David, for the reply.

By “thru-hike” I mean the Colorado Trail, which I am considering for this summer.  The longest I would expect to be between towns is about 100 miles, so maybe 5-6 days at the outside.  With my GoPro on a typical weekend 3-day trip, I have found that I normally use a spare battery if I am doing lots of video or timelapses.  One spare battery would probably be fine for about 5 days if I was more conservative with it, and no long timelapses.  However, as I mentioned, I am considering ditching the GoPro in favor of a “real” camera–specifically the Canon G9x ii (I was also considering the RX100 iii).  I’m guessing that maybe these cameras will use more juice than the GoPro since they have bigger LCD touch screens.  I’m uncertain how much usage I would get out of these cameras since I don’t currently own one.  I’m guessing that I would want to either take 2 spare batteries or a power bank.  I don’t know how much 2 spare batteries weigh, but with my GoPro, the batteries weigh in at 24 g each.  So a pair of extra batteries would be around 2 oz.  Now you mention batteries from China…I’m a bit skeptical that these would be reliable.  Have you had good success with these?

I’m still on the fence though about whether to even buy a compact enthusiast camera…or whether to put the money towards an iPhone 7.  Even if I got an iPhone 7+, which weighs about 2 oz more than my old iPhone 5, I would be saving the weight of a dedicated camera (say, 7-8 oz on the low end), so I would be 5-6 oz ahead.  But I think we both agree, using the iPhone to shoot lots of video will drain it quick…

Alan Dixon has some good thoughts on cameras for backpacking:

http://www.adventurealan.com/serious-lightweight-backpacking-cameras/#video

He seems to favor a mirrorless (A6000) though…That’s too much weight for me.  A GoPro or compact enthusiast with 1″ sensor is about the most I want to carry…

[David Thomas]

“batteries from China”

Where do you think all camera batteries come from, nowadays?  They either go out the front door of a Chinese factory to Sony / Canon to sell for $29.95 each at Walmart or $20.95 online.  Or out the back door and sold on eBay for $2 with free shipping.

The ones I’ve gotten have worked as well as the original factory-supplied batteries.  Sometimes better if I get them years later and they’re higher capacity.  Factory batteries and aftermarket batteries all lose capacity over the years, even if you don’t use them.  So I’ve learned to not say, “Wow, only $1.17 each, I’ll order 10 and never need to order them again.” because many years later, they don’t give the same battery life even though I’ve cycled them very little.  Still, $5 for 3 batteries every 3 years ain’t much.

I have noticed that off-brand external battery packs often over-rate their performance compared to Anker.  I’d look closely at the reviews for someone who has measured amp-hours of those if you’re really concerned about weight / capacity.

Over those distances and with your observed battery consumption, I’d lean towards getting extra, cheap camera batteries.  Especially if you could bounce them ahead (mail the discharged ones to a friend to charge and mail them back 2 stops ahead).

A little googling finds the battery NB-13L for the Canon G9x ii for $48 from Canon and $46 from B&H Photo, $23 from Battery Depot, and $7 from BestBuy.  I actually didn’t find an eBay offering under $7/battery, although there were 2 battery/charger/car kits for $35.  I suspect it’s a newish battery.  It takes a year or two for them to really get cheap.  Batteries for older Canon models were available $2 to $4 each.

The NP-BX1 battery for the Sony is cheaper both domestically and off of eBay: two with charger for $9.07 & free shipping.  Two without charger for $6.55 & free shipping.
<h1>NP-BX1</h1>
For your use, it would be really helpful if the camera had a low-power mode in which it doesn’t run the view screen, etc.

[Matthew / BPL]

The OP question is vague and I choose to carry only an iPhone with no camera so this is not a definitive answer but I have a few thoughts:

• iPhone 5 vs 7 is night and day in every way but particularly the camera.
• Water-resistance in iPhone 7 is a game changer
• You aren’t going to do any long exposure astrophotography or anything like that on the phone.
• I get plenty of photographs with my iPhone 7 that look good in print. I’m a graphic designer and I teach Photoshop so my opinion counts for something. That said, a dedicated, real camera is going to give you much better photographs.
• In airplane mode using my iPhone 7 for ~25 photos/day, a few short videos of beautiful creeks or a time-lapse of the sky, ~30 minutes of downloaded podcasts, a few snaps (saved offline because I like how snapchat works as a way to tell the story of my day) and multiple checkins on Gaia using preloaded maps I can easily get 3 days of battery life on my phone.
• I’m not impressed with my wife’s 7+ over my 7. I don’t see much advantage to carrying this gigantic slab of phone.
• I like the simplicity of hiking with one device.
• I’ve had good experiences with Anker batteries for recharging. I’m really liking this one right now. I haven’t tested it rigorously but it seems like it is good for more than 3 full charges (probably 4?).

[David Thomas]

Matthew: Great info.  Thanks.  I’m on the cusp of moving from my iPhone 6 to a 7 ASAP versus waiting till I kill the 6 in some new way (my usual MO) and then scrambling to replace it.

[Roger Caffin]

Are you concerned about the phone or about image quality? If you want good photos, then you need to consider the lens. On a compact there is a decent multi-element lens system out front; on a phone there are a couple of tiny bits of glass or plastic. Sure, some phones make great spin about the number of pixels in their sensors, but those pixels are just nice marketing fluff.

Ultimately, it is all about the glass.

Cheers

[BlackHatGuy]

“Ultimately, it is all about the glass.”

Not really. Ultimately, it’s all about the eye and talent of the photographer. A good photo is about composition, subject, patience, understanding light, etc., glass has little to do with the art of photography.

Photographers who overemphasize the importance of ‘good’ glass are like backpackers who overemphasize gear at the expense of backcountry skills and knowledge.

[BlackHatGuy]

“I’m on the cusp of moving from my iPhone 6 to a 7 ASAP”

@davidinkenai: Personally, I’d wait, unless there’s some other compelling reason for you to upgrade now. New iPhones should be announced this fall – most pundits seem to agree that Apple will offer the new iPhone with an OLED screen instead of an LCD screen and increased waterproofness. There will, of course, be other upgrades as well. It’s also expected to be expensive as hell, perhaps over a grand for the top model, FWIW.

[Roger Caffin]

Hi Doug

Yes, inded, we are talking about two different things, and I have to agree with you about ‘the eye of the photographer’.

That said, a good photog appreciates good tools.
(The original is 4000×3000, but the Forum SW is mean.)

Cheers

[Yoyo]

I suppose I should have divided my original question into two parts:

(i) Can an iPhone 7 (or other new smartphone) keep pace with a dedicated compact camera (specifically something like the Canon G9Xii which Andrew Skurka seems to favor these days)?  [In my case, I don’t own either, so I would either need to upgrade my phone or spend the cash on a dedicated camera.  I will be carrying some phone, however, for occasional GPS use and phone calls during my thru-hike].

(ii) If I go with a dedicated compact camera, will I save enough power on my phone to obviate the need for a heavier power brick, thus saving some weight on external power?  To reframe the question, what is the true weight difference between using a smartphone as a camera for video and pictures vs. using a dedicated camera.  (Again, the Canon G9Xii weighs in at 7.3 oz, the RX100 iii weighs in at 10.2 oz for comparison).

 

Hope that helps clarify my original post.

[Roger Caffin]

(i) Can an iPhone 7 (or other new smartphone) keep pace with a dedicated compact camera
No. They do not have the lens quality.

Think about it. If you could run a good compact camera (or a DSLR) with those tiny lenses you get on phones, think how much cheaper the camera would be. But no-one even tries to do that.

I have been editing a paper walking mag for 10+ years. We get photos sent in for publication. Now, unlike a web display, colour printing needs both high quality and high resolution. I have yet to see any photos from a phone which I would deem acceptible for printing at any significant size.

Of course, if you are only going to look at your photos on your phone, most of what I have been saying is irrelevant. The phone display is tiny: who needs 10 MPixels on it?

(ii) If I go with a dedicated compact camera, will I save enough power on my phone to obviate the need for a heavier power brick,
I suggest you need to decide whether photo quality is important enough to justify a good camera, and a Canon compact is excellent for this.
The phone then becomes a totally separate issue, and it would depend entirely on what you want to do with your phone.

Hard line – yes.
Cheers

[David Thomas]

(ii) since anyone who hiked the AT, PCT or CDT in the entire history of the world, prior to 1993, did it without a cell phone, Yes, you can GREATLY reduce your cell phone battery usage.  By, for instance, turning it off until you need to communicate an emergency situation, perhaps check the weather forecast every few days, and call for your pick up a day before you reach the trail’s end.

[BlackHatGuy]

“(i) Can an iPhone 7 (or other new smartphone) keep pace with a dedicated compact camera”

I don’t mean to be obtuse, but it depends on what you mean by ‘keeping pace.’ An iPhone 7 can take pictures that could easily be used in a 4-color, regular sized (meaning around 8.5×11) publication, even as a full-page graphic. I know this because I’ve done it (in a military, award-winning magazine). So, you can take really nice pictures, which you could print and hang on your walls with pride, with a current iPhone (mine’s a 6, not a 7) and probably Android phones as well (I don’t know much of anything about them).

The issue, in my mind, is how limited phone pics will be. Unless you get into digital zooming, which you most definitely don’t really want to do, you’re limited to a single lens at a fixed focal length for every picture (unless you buy add-on lenses, which can be quite expensive and still somewhat limiting). That’s fine for many hobby photographers.

If you fancy yourself more than a hobbyist, or want more control over focal lengths and such, a ‘real’ camera is probably best. A compact camera is a bit less limited, but still more limited than a camera on which you can use multiple lenses. But to get the most out of them, you need to understand how to use them manually.

If you’re just going to ‘point and shoot’, allowing the camera to automatically set exposure/aperture and such, IMO, you’re almost as good with a current smartphone as with a dedicated point-and-shoot – good enough to spare the expense of an additional camera unless you really feel the need for the zooming ability.

“(ii) If I go with a dedicated compact camera, will I save enough power on my phone to obviate the need for a heavier power brick, thus saving some weight on external power?”

Can’t help you much here since I’ve never figured it out, but using my iPhone (with a Mophie battery case on it) as a camera, occasional Gaia use, texting thru my Explorer+ at night, maybe a short video or two, I can get 5-6 days out of it.

[Cameron M]

Lots of great comments above. I have been a fan of using the iPhone for trail photos for years. It does take more skill than a conventional P&S and does have its limitations; It is mostly about understanding the effective use of light, and a minor bit of photoshop magic can help as well. It may be that if you don’t like your iPhone 5 photos you might not like the ones from a 7.

-The actual photo capture takes VERY LITTLE battery power. I shoot tons of photos, use GAIA GPS, read books, listen to Spotify, and still get more than 5 days from my iPhone 6. So in terms of both battery and camera weight, the iPhone is a big gain.

-In daylight the photos can be excellent, and yes, eminently publishable. It is the night shots where the 7 with its 1.8 lens and 12 megapixels seems to be the larger jump in ability over the 6.

@Matthew- I get four full charges on my 6 with that Anker 10000 battery.

I have examples of iPhone-only trail photography on my trail website: http://www.trailnamebackstroke.com.

My friend Josh White is a photo pro and his iPhone photos are amazing for their range of scenes and light: http://www.instagram.com/white1977/

 

[Ian]

I have the iPhone 6, not the 7, so I can’t speak to its capabilities.

I hiked the 93 mile Wonderland Trail, took pictures, shot video, occasionally used Gaia, without having to recharge the phone I had then, the iPhone 5s.  If you have the ability to fully recharge the phone every 50 miles and keep it in airplane mode, you should be fine.

As far as a P&S vs iPhone, you really need to articulate to yourself what your needs are.  The iPhone 7+, by all accounts, has a great camera and is among the best (up there with Google Pixel).  If you purchase the month to month Lightroom subscription, you can use the app on your phone.  Last I checked, they offer a free trial.  At any rate, there’s a way to shoot raw using this app.  There may be some other apps that do the same but I haven’t researched it.

One of the largest advantages of the RX100x or any of the other 1″ sensors will be depth of field and optical zoom.  From what I hear, the iPhone 7 has great low light capabilities compared to its predecessors but I try to avoid using auto exposure.  For me, I want to be able to control my shutter speed/ISO/Aperture so when the mountain goat runs across the trail in front of me, the camera doesn’t automatically choose too slow of a shutter speed to capture the moment.

As Doug mentioned, I’d avoid using the digital zoom.  I’ve found that it’s better to shoot it in its native format and crop it later.  I believe the 7+ has two lenses that can cover a couple different focal ranges optically.

Not all third party Chinese batteries are created equal, and even the good ones have issues in some cameras.  For me, I’ve been very happy with Wasabi batteries in my A6000 (own four) but I’ve heard that folks have had issues with them in their RX100.  I believe the new GoPro firmware update will not allow third party batteries.  If you do go the P&S route, one thing to consider is that the RX100 uses the same battery as their action cameras.  If you think you’d ever like to carry both, then you could simplify your battery options by going with Sony.

If you could answer these questions, it’d be easier to give you some direction:

Do you need to shoot raw?

What focal range do you want to have covered?

Are you interested in shooting star trails or other astrophotography?

Video?  Desired Frame Rates?

Do you or do you foresee yourself shooting manual?

Price?

[Matthew / BPL]

For the record, this app allows shooting RAW and gives you coByron over ISO/shutter speed/focus.

Manual – RAW custom exposure camera by Will Global
https://appsto.re/us/KQOQ2.i

[Cameron M]

Wow, I did not know that true RAW is now finally supported. Fantastic!

[Link .]

There is a lot of good info on ALAN DIXON’S site

[David Thomas]

An article, “Your Smartphone Camera Should Suck. Here’s Why It Doesn’t”

https://www.wired.com/2015/12/smartphone-camera-sensors/

[Cameron M]

Reports indicate iPhone 7 RAW photo file sizes to be in the range of 12-16 MB. This is no surprise as raw files are typically many times the size of jpegs. But it suggests that a serious photographer should probably buy the 128 GB model, and even then a PCT type thru-hiker will be faced with potentially having to do a major upload/offload mid-trip once the camera fills up since the iPhones do not support removable media.

[BlackHatGuy]

“a PCT type thru-hiker will be faced with potentially having to do a major upload/offload mid-trip once the camera fills up since the iPhones do not support removable media.”

Technically true, but you can use a SanDisk iXpand flash drive, pretty light weight, to move photos from your phone to the drive during the hike. Not cheap, but works well.

[Ian]

The fact that Apple does not allow for an SD card is proof that they secretly hate their customers and want to keep them in their ecosystem in a very Silence-Of-The-Lamps-It-Puts-Lotion-On-Itself sort of way.

I may be bitter here.

This is definitely a YMMV sort of thing but I only shoot RAW with my A6000 and shot a fair amount of video on the Wonderland and did not fill up a 32gb card.  If you fill 128 gb in 500 miles, you must be a glutton for post processing punishment, although Cameron makes a good point regarding the PCT.

The OP hasn’t remarked on this (and perhaps I missed it), but only shoot RAW if you plan on editing the pictures in Lightroom or something equivalent afterwards.  If you don’t plan on doing any post processing, then a jpeg image will be better out of the camera the lens corrections, sharpening, and other corrections are made in camera.

One of the advantages of RAW is that you have a mostly uncompressed file that you can pull a lot of detail from, and if processed correctly, you’ll end up with something superior to the jpeg version.

[Roger Caffin]

you must be a glutton for post processing punishment
On the other hand, doing so really fixes the trip in your memory. Double the trip fun for no further exertion?

Cheers

[Ian]

Double the trip fun for no further exertion?

Depends on the person.  There are ways to apply lens correction, sharpening, and other corrections to multiple pictures at once.  That’s really no big deal and takes mere moments to apply.

Trudging through several hundred pictures to sort out which ones are keepers and then editing them can be tedious for some and can take several hours/days depending on the editor’s tastes.  For others, this process is the icing on the cake and is enjoyable.

Like everything else on BPL, there’s no one right way and it boils down to personal preference.

[Author]

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