Intolerance on BPL [serious thread]

[Greg Mihalik]

365 shades of gray …

[Matthew / BPL]

As a Photoshop teacher I prefer to think of 254 shades of grey (256 values in 8 bit files but black and white aren’t grey so that leaves 254…)

[Franco Darioli]

I find it highly ironical that in a thread about intolerance one of the members taking the righteous stance calls me “tarp tent”.

Now, was that a kind of an attempt to censor me, if not what was it all about ?

See how easy it is to get it wrong ?

[Matthew / BPL]

Yep. It’s pretty clear.

[Roger Caffin]

There is a large Japanese airline by the name ‘Air Nippon’. The term seems acceptable to the Japanese.
Just like ‘Yanks’ seems to be acceptable to Americans?
Has this concern gone way overboard?

Cheers

[Monte Masterson]

When David Sugeno, the Japanese American who replied on the Spinning Reel thread, said that the term was in fact considered a slur by ethnic Japanese, I was immediately convinced. Whatever whites think about it is irrelevant.

I’m a little perplexed as to why the short term for Nippon is so offensive, but it’s not for me to decide. Obviously the word has historical and emotional connotations that are beyond my realm of knowledge. I guess when  I thought  how the term was used by American soldiers who served in the Pacific campaign, I began to kind of understand a little better. I had a neighbor who was in the Marines at Guadalcanal. He said “the XXXX came running at us in waves of bayonet charges.”  He still held great respect for Japanese soldiers’ extreme bravery though.

Matthew, you don’t have anything to be sorry about. You’re doing a great job. The way this thing has played out has been more instructive than if you had immediately deleted the word. It DID need to be omitted in time however.

I keep wondering if there aren’t some Japanese (in Japan) who are getting really amused by reading this thread..

[Jerry Adams]

“When the Japanese American who replied on the Spinning Reel thread, said that the term was in fact considered a slur by ethnic Japanese, I was immediately convinced. Whatever whites think about it is irrelevant.”

exactly

the reason it might be offensive is the way it’s been used for years

during WWII (or any war) you demonize the opponent.  Make caricatures that make them look like rats, slur names for them.  If the soldiers consider them normal humans, they’ll be less enthusiastic about killing them.  That’s where that word came from

 

[W I S N E R !]

“Has this concern gone way overboard?”

You guys are a bit confused about what’s happening here….

Japanese people don’t call Japan “Japan” (with our pronunciation) in the native language.  Nippon is the anglicized spelling of the characters 日本, the native name for Japan.  The Ps are typically silent, pronounced more with an H sound.  It’s a long O.  Look it up and you can hear it.

The slur comes from a shortened form of what is essentially a mispronunciation of the anglicized spelling.  There’s a big difference between it and Nippon or Nihon.  The latter are perfectly fine whereas the slur is a slur, born out of hatred around WWII.

(20 years ago I was somewhat fluent in the language and lived there.)

[Gabe P]

It’s also listed as a slur in the Oxford Dictionary.

[Ryan Jordan]

Hello everyone,

First, I want to express my thanks to you for treating this subject with care, attention, intentionality, and curiosity. This is a very sensitive issue and one that is very much worth some patience and time on the part of all of us.

I want to express my gratitude in particular to Matthew for taking the lead on opening up a discussion with our community and soliciting your feedback. This exercise has helped us hone in on our values, and change how we respond to discrimination or harassment in the forums.

Second, I want to make it very clear that Stephanie and I wish to make Backpacking Light an inclusive environment, free from discrimination or harassment on the basis of race, color, religion, sex, sexual orientation, gender identity or expression, age, disability, marital status, citizenship, national origin, or any other characteristic.

This statement has been clarified in our forum guidelines.

As for moderation practices, as we move forward on this issue, our moderators will be encouraged to immediately and intentionally moderate posts as needed to minimize any impacts of discrimination or harassment in the forums. You can play a role in this by reporting posts that are offensive. This is very helpful to us. In addition, we encourage you to send private messages to the offending party suggesting that they self-moderate their own posts, and refer them to our guidelines. Community moderation is a powerful tool.

Third, I want to emphasize that our heart for this community from the very beginning has been to promote a culture of respect and kindness among our community members. So while there are populations of our community subject to unique forms of discrimination, as outlined in the statement above, I want to encourage you to apply an anti-discrimination and anti-harassment ethic to anyone who may not only look, act, or be different from you, but also who may hold different opinions than you.

Our current social and political climate, especially through social media, has created quite the opposite – an environment where people feel entitled to say anything they want in the name of “fighting injustice” or “exposing the truth” or “expressing their freedom of speech” etc. etc. etc.

Unfortunately, that social fabric has fostered a culture of division where two people with different opinions can (a) no longer have a relationship and (b) dehumanize each other for the sake of “truth” or “justice” or “freedom”.

Respectful communications that honors each other’s humanity requires patience, effort, and intentionality.

It’s worth our time to invest in crafting good communications. We have a good community here, and we’re all learning and growing.

Sincerely,
Ryan Jordan
Publisher / Owner

[Matthew / BPL]

Thank you very much for your thoughtful response, Ryan. I think these changes provide a good framework for moving forward.

[Franco Darioli]

Some were proud to be called rats :

https://www.awm.gov.au/visit/exhibitions/tobruk

it depends on the context and the intended meaning.

For example many Italians and Greeks here identify with the term Wog, however it does depend on how it is used.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wogs_Out_of_Work

[Kattt]

Thanks Ryan for all of that.

[Gary Dunckel]

That was very well said, Ryan. I think that many of us old timers would agree with you wholeheartedly. The goal for me has always been (1) to learn, (2) to share my minimal knowledge, and (3) to otherwise further the goals and intent of the overall BPL direction. Hopefully we might keep things clean, civil, and respectful, else we enter the low-level of places like Reddit et al.

[James Marco]

Yes,a  hearty Thank You, Ryan!

[Uwe A. Seidel]

I am a German and from the heartlands of Bavaria for that. Being called a “Kraut” does NOT offend me, even if I don’t eat kraut every day. I don’t drink beer every day and I really don’t wear lederhosen and dance all day and night in big beer tents. If you have fun calling me a lederhose, or a kraut: enjoy. As long as you take your stereotypes not seriously. Then you are a XXX (tripple PC X rated person). Things would be different for me, if you call each and every German a nazi.

Discussing a onesecond (brain/mouth) fart for 10 hours and with reference to its chemical structure and a WHO list of common diseases will neither change its odors nor will it prevent the next one. Jiggle or, (pretend to) ignore, but live on with/after it and respect that other people have different definitions and policies of tolerance than you. Tolerance is not the new God(dess), or is it? Tolerate even the annoying and the people-with-other-value-sets und respect them as well. You are not forced to imitate them or agree with them. We are free people. My conscience is not bound by any internet list of sorts. Respect for other people comes only and finally because a human being is an image of and created by God. So much my 2 pfennigs (actually, we have cents in Europe). (What has this to do with backpacking? and with light?)

The owner of this website can do with his website what he wants to do with it. But I do not come here (and have not payed for) to discuss language policies or PC sensitivities. I live in a sometimes very harsh but very beautiful natural environment and some of its best human inhabitants have developed a bit of a rough survival character as well. I love them though.

[DAN-Y/FANCEE FEEST]

[Rodney]

I have been at BPL since around 2005 or 2006. I don’t ever recall anything remotely discriminatory or harassing in nature. So that is a good thing. Keep up the good work BPL members.

[jscott]

Write as if you were addressing your brother or sister (the one you like).

As it turns out, you are.

(of course, I’ve, ahem, not always taken my own advice over on Chaff. But Chaff is filled with hard cases.)

[Ken Thompson]

BPL posters have always been good at self policing. Not sure what what took eighteen years for this ridiculousness.

[Matthew / BPL]

That’s great that you guys don’t think anything offensive ever happens here or you aren’t offended by some of the stuff that has been said. That doesn’t change the fact that there have been several situations lately where people have reported offensive speech and as a moderator I have to make decisions which are not easy so we are having a conversation about it. Please don’t dismiss the conversation.

Of course, the vast majority of posts are on-topic and written as Jeffrey suggests.

Now let’s get back to discussing tarps and places to hike off-trail and dense, caloric food options. That’s what I’m here for, at least.

Edit: Ryan and I think it’s time to get back to the subject at hand so I’m locking the thread. If someone had something they need to say in this thread please PM me and I’ll unlock it so the conversation can continue.

One last time: thanks to everyone for participating in this thread. :)

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