Jun 26, 2020 at 12:17 pm #3654794Brad RogersBPL Member
@mocs123Locale: Southeast Tennessee
Airplanes and Airports are “scary” as they see a lot of people from all areas of the country, but they are also taking extra precautions. They may in reality be safer than going to your local store as complacency sets in and places are not taking the proper precautions.Jun 26, 2020 at 12:48 pm #3654798DanBPL Member
What’s a “group backpack”? And what is this thing called “trail” that people are referring to?
Quite easy to social distance perfectly while backpacking, it’s called solo off-trail. ;-)Jun 26, 2020 at 1:59 pm #3654809
Fwiw, almost no governors are envisioning going back to non-essential workers staying at home. Even California is saying the “non-Covid” health and economic costs of more housebound months are unacceptable.
Being responsible means have some nice things available once in awhile until the vaccine is out.Jun 26, 2020 at 2:14 pm #3654812
… the above for a general ban on travel within the US. Some states may play tit-for-tat, so it may behoove travelers to travel when their home infection rate is low. In terms of “severe“ travel restrictions, just not seeing it.
India had a pretty severe “surprise” 3 wk stay at home order, stranding workers and travelers, but their infection rate skyrocketed right after, so not sure that accomplished much.Jun 26, 2020 at 2:46 pm #3654816Jun 26, 2020 at 4:36 pm #3654844Eric BlumensaadtBPL Member
@danepackerLocale: Mojave Desert
Yer keerect John, the OP is over 65, in fact 12 years over 65. And my spouse is 4 years older yet so I must consider her too.
So yes, I’m very careful these days. And I’m very happy our Nevada state legislature and governor today made wearing masks in public places MANDATORY.
This ain’t a Democrats’ virus, it’s an “equal opportunity infector”.
Out trip leader won’t require attendees to get tested or wear masks in camp. Strange.Jun 26, 2020 at 5:31 pm #3654860
If you stayed 6 feet away from people you should be okay. Especially if it’s outside. Passing within 6 feet briefly probably okay, you need 15 minute exposure “they” sayJun 26, 2020 at 5:38 pm #3654861jscottBPL Member
@bookLocale: Northern California
“you need 15 minute exposure “they” say”
well, if someone with covid sneezes on you, and neither of you are wearing a mask, I think that might do the trick. for that matter, if you touch an infected surface and then touch your eyes…etc.Jun 26, 2020 at 6:11 pm #3654863idesterBPL Member
@doug-iLocale: The CascadesJun 26, 2020 at 8:43 pm #3654879
You need to do what you think best for yourself. This is America and we have free choices. So congrats on doing what’s best for you. I’m sure the others on that trip will do what they think is best for them. For me, I’m not letting any Governor or TV network change my own risk assessment and choices.Jun 26, 2020 at 8:58 pm #3654881jscottBPL Member
@bookLocale: Northern California
“For me, I’m not letting any Governor or TV network change my own risk assessment and choices.”
Well, either the people who choose to follow the simple protocols to protect themselves and others from covid are right, or the people who assess the risk as being minimal are right.
Given the latest data on the spread of the disease, I’m putting my money on the people who follow the protocols.
Dave, will this latest spike in cases change your mind–even if hospitals begin to be overwhelmed and doctors and nurses start coming down with the disease as well–or is your position abstract and set in stone: I have the right to ignore the data and make my own choice. Making your own choice trumps all else.
here’s how I understand the logic of the ‘personal choice’ folks–I may be way off! They say:
–Making my own choice is paramount
–I’m being ‘told’ to wear a mask. That’s a form of coercion! Ergo,
–my freedom requires (ironic moment in the argument) that I not wear a a mask.
Again, the personal choice people are required to not wear a mask to demonstrate their freedom of choice. Hmmmm…Jun 26, 2020 at 9:11 pm #3654883KarenBPL Member
I wonder if the people who refuse to be “letting any Governor or TV network change my own risk assessment and choices” realize how “led” they actually are by the media they consume. Facts are inconvenient and science dismissed outright, since they both tend to guide one back toward following the advice of health professionals.
Do you really think you know more than the experts? Kind of puts us back in the dark ages, doesn’t it?Jun 26, 2020 at 9:16 pm #3654884KarenBPL Member
There’s something about America indeed! I’m actively encouraging my kids to try Denmark after they graduate college. Or maybe Portugal. Somewhere people can still think and care about the collective future.Jun 26, 2020 at 9:17 pm #3654885
I said people need to be comfortable and make the choices best for them. Different doctors have different opinions. You have to make your own choices. And I am a health professional FYI. She made the right choice for herself. Stress is a risk factor for many problems.Jun 26, 2020 at 9:17 pm #3654886
Oops meant he. Mistyped!!!Jun 26, 2020 at 9:45 pm #3654892idesterBPL Member
@doug-iLocale: The Cascades
I was always taught that with freedom comes responsibility. It seems some folks only want the freedom part, but not the responsibility part.Jun 26, 2020 at 10:31 pm #3654895
Good article doug
Yeah, the virus lives us best
It loves Brazil too, and russiaJun 26, 2020 at 10:34 pm #3654896W I S N E R !BPL Member
The world has never had a good definition of the word liberty, and the American people, just now, are much in want of one. We all declare for liberty; but in using the same word we do not all mean the same thing…Here are two, not only different, but incompatable things, called by the same name—liberty. And it follows that each of the things is, by the respective parties, called by two different and incompatable names—liberty and tyranny.
Abraham Lincoln, 1864
And here we are, 150 years later…Jun 26, 2020 at 10:56 pm #3654899Ryan JordanAdmin
@ryanLocale: Central Rockies
@chrisjgilmore that’s a rational response, thanks. I don’t know that what I’ve read in the med lit suggests that fabric masks are useless, but I get where you’re coming from. The difference between fabrics and N95 is notable. Large droplets 2-6x maybe for double-layered poly or cotton fabrics and 10-30+x reductions for N95s. Fine droplets, the spread is bigger.
Still waiting on William’s response though. It would be interesting to hear from him since there might be a more ideological battle going on there. I always wonder how that sort of thing plays out when it’s staring at reasonably reliable data.Jun 27, 2020 at 5:49 am #3654920ArthurBPL Member
It’s interesting to me that suddenly all the health zealots and politicians are shutting down the world to protect the public. Where have they been for the last 100+ years? Tobacco has been killing hundreds of thousands of people in the US every year, with ten’s of thousands who don’t even smoke dying. Second hand smoke in a way, is like the virus, you get it just being around others. And that is EVERY year, year after year. CDC numbers. 480,000 deaths annually. 41,000 deaths from second hand smoke. Just in the US. I hope that when the vaccine is developed and this chaos is minimized, that we shut down the country until all the tobacco use is gone. That would save more lives that what we are doing now. https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/health_effects/tobacco_related_mortality/index.htmJun 27, 2020 at 7:30 am #3654931
Arthur, the difference between those and covid is that they are slow, covid quickly fills up hospitals with very sick people. At that point, politicians take actions even if it’s the opposite of their tribe
Another one is obesity. On NPR a guy claimed that obesity causes 40,000 deaths per month, about the same as covid. Obese people also do less well when they get covid – two epidemics collide.Jun 27, 2020 at 7:59 am #3654937
That was being used to sterilize medical facilities for drug resistant bacteria. Actually used a stationary unit at the Chiricahua National Monuments visitor center restroom when norovirus was rampant. I think more UV units sanitizing restrooms (especially when traveling) is a good thing.
…suddenly all the health zealots and politicians are shutting down the world to protect the public…
The idea was keep the numbers down as not to overwhelm the ICUs here in the US. Before the medical got rid of hospital beds due to resistant bacteria and financial efficiency, … then this hit. The plan was temporarily shutdown, and the system would be better prepared fall 2020. That would have the benefit of more medical facilities for travelers including backpackers away from their immediate home areas. Seems events have overtaken that rudimentary plan however..Jun 27, 2020 at 7:59 am #3654938ArthurBPL Member
Having full hospitals is nothing new. I have seen full hospitals many times over the last 40 years with the flu and respiratory outbreaks. Surgeries canceled, can’t get “elective” surgeries scheduled. Full ICU’s, full ER’s, patients in the halls, staff shortages because they were all sick too. At least this time, it’s not the children’s hospitals being full. Thank god. And, BTW, I have never seen a hospital administrator unhappy with their hospitals full. Not saying this time is not bad, just trying for some perspective that was there before 24 hour cable news and internet to stroke fears. Conversation with my dad, 93, still living independently in the house I grew up in. “Dad, do you remember the Hong Kong Flu?” Pause. “Remember, 1968, 110,000 people in the US died that year.” Dad says “Oh yea, we all went to work, washed our hands a lot, and the old folks in the homes died.”. Interesting perspective.Jun 27, 2020 at 9:36 am #3654952
Getting back to backpacking, there’s the perspective of the small towns often used for a post-hike meal, sometimes stay, and resupply on longer trips. When the virus started being taken seriously, according to one PCT town resident and former hiker on other social media, all of the town united in an “us vs them” moment in rejecting non-essential visitors (probably skirts as they were among the first spreaders in early March). Everyone was snug and safe…
Then the business owners realized the virus closure could go on with NO bailout for them. That’s when the pressure to reopen really started. Now there’s mostly rural to suburban sheriffs (an elected position here in the US) stating they won’t enforce closures etc.. As a result I was able to resupply easily on a recent 250 mile trip, get a room to clean up, etc.. (btw, love the 1950s type paper wrapper stating “sanitized by ..)
Pretty sure that scenario played across all counties, rural to urban, … but it’s really rural economics that’s driving the reopening for travelers (which includes non-resident backpackers).Jun 27, 2020 at 9:58 am #3654959
“Oh yea, we all went to work, washed our hands a lot, and the old folks in the homes died.”
Yeah, different perspective back then
And there’s more equipment that’s expensive like ventilators
And there are frantic people claiming the sky is falling
I think the shutdowns were an over reaction. Masks and contact tracing are effective enough. But I won’t be overly critical, usually the government under reacts.
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