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How does a Quilt’s Pad Attachment System Influence its Heat Loss Resistance?


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Home Forums Campfire Editor’s Roundtable How does a Quilt’s Pad Attachment System Influence its Heat Loss Resistance?

Viewing 11 posts - 26 through 36 (of 36 total)
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  • #3844693
    Terran Terran
    BPL Member

    @terran

    Pertex Quantum and 900 fill. Very common. The footbox may be slightly overbuilt and the sheet adds a bit of weight. Features that help when below freezing. Hook and loop attachment. Pretty simple really. Don’t overthink it. I’ve never used straps. Unless it’s cold, I don’t use the sheet. It’s not for everyone. Not for the ultra lighter minimalist. More for those who find little comfort enjoyable.

    #3844708
    Geoff Caplan
    BPL Member

    @geoffcaplan

    Locale: Lake District, Cumbria

    The problem with bed-like systems like the Zen Bivy is that they cut out draughts and are comfortable for restless sleepers, but they also increase the dead space. Practical testing at PHD Designs, as I’ve mentioned before, suggests that dead space is more costly than most realise.

    I’ve been experimenting with draught reduction in quilts, using Apex prototypes in an unheated bedroom with open windows. So, minimal air movement and a slight frost.

    My aim is comfort and flexibility rather than gram counting.

    I’m finding that a combination of strategies is effective:

    1. As wide as a narrow mummy bag
    2. Sewn foot box almost up to the hips
    3. Draught flaps, as with the Ray Way quilt
    4. Edge tension control, as with the Nunatak quilt

    I also plan to experiment with straps attached above the bottom hem leaving a tuckable edge, as with Neve Gear quilts – though this may be overkill. The main advantage would be helping to keep me on the mat.

    The combined weight is trivial, and I’m finding it’s actually more efficient than my somewhat oversized mummy, because I can adjust the amount of dead space inside very precisely. Draught control is excellent.

    I’d argue that this is lighter than a Zen bed, less hassle to set up, and more flexible in use. But it would be a custom job, as I’m not aware of a similar commercial offering.

    #3844714
    David D
    BPL Member

    @ddf

    Do the draught flaps stay in place if you’re a restless sleeper?  I considered sewing some onto my quilt but was skeptical that they’d stay properly planted.

    #3844717
    Terran Terran
    BPL Member

    @terran

    I also plan to experiment with straps attached above the bottom hem leaving a tuckable edge

    This basically describes the ZB as long as it’s wide enough. A sewn footbox would probably reduce weight and drafts.. The hook and loop footbox of the ZB tends to open up, though I think I can fix that.

    #3844721
    Jeff McWilliams
    BPL Member

    @jjmcwill

    Locale: Midwest

    Regarding the high prices ($750.00) of the ZenBivy system: I think you’re looking at the total cost for the top end down quilt, plus down filled sheet, plus their sleeping pad.

    Zenbivy offers three different fill materials for their quilts:  Ultrasonic Muscovy Down, Expedry Muscovy Down, and Goose Down.  Choosing a different material lowers the cost of the quilt.  You could also pick an uninsulated sheet, and you could mate the sheet & quilt with your own sleeping pad.  These choices all lower the $$ investment required to get into a Zenbivy system if you’re convinced the design significantly reduces warmth and/or your sleep comfort.

    If you already have a quilt and just want to experiment with how their system works, ZenBivy has announced that they’ll be selling a retrofit kit for other quilts.  It’s basically a set of 8 stick-on patches with the loops that mate to the hooks in their sheets.  You place those patches on your existing quilt, in the locations specified in the kit, so that your quilt then mates to a Zenbivy sheet.  Michael Glavin has already posted how you can do this yourself using Tenacious Tape and guyline cord.  It’s somewhere in the BackpackingLight forum archives, but I have a copy of it on Google Docs.

    I ordered one of their uninsulated sheets during a previous sale, but I have yet to retrofit my old EE quilt, but that’s my plan.  I think retrofitting a quilt and purchasing a Zenbivy sheet will allow more people to experiment with the concept to see if it works for them.

     

    #3844781
    Terran Terran
    BPL Member

    @terran

    Just having a sheet over the sleeping pad has spoiled me. I found the sheet fits loosely on my Thermarest so I acquired a ZB Flexmat. Still loose. I acquired a Nemo Tensor and it fits a lot better. I’m considering the retrofit kit, or just tape for my older quilt. As long as it’s placed correctly. The top cut on the ZB quilt is meant to tuck into the hood surrounding your face. I think a regular quilt would work given enough slack.

    I’ve had many nights with the duck down. The Muscovy down is even nicer. I don’t miss the goose.

    #3844850
    Michael Glavin / Zenbivy
    BPL Member

    @gmontlake

    Locale: Owner, Zenbivy.com

    Bryan:

    Mike from Zenbivy here.  For quilts that have their attachment “above the bottom hem of the quilt”, there are a couple of issues to consider:

    First, these attachments basically use the edge of the quilt to create a baffle that will minimize gapping, but this makes the quilt fit narrower.  If you create a 2″ “baffle” on either side of the quilt, the quilt is effectively 4″ narrower since you are using that 4″ to try to plug up some of the draft holes.  It’s actually a fairly significant weight penalty to get the same fit compared to attaching on the edge of the quilt.

    But more importantly ALL strap systems pin the quilt to the mattress, adding constriction and fixing the girth to a single size.  Even if the attachments are allowed to slide along the strap (like Katabatic), the edges of the quilt are not free to move naturally.  The Zenbivy system is infinitely girth-adjustable without any restriction, so the quilt “floats” on top of the mattress but cannot fall off.  Here’s an image showing what I mean:   https://zenbivy.com/cdn/shop/files/2-Piece-Design-constriction-FINAL.gif?v=1740505803&width=860

    So those side panels have two design goals.  They are intended to not only make the quilt draft-free at the minimum weight (so its warmer than straps), they allow unrestricted movement  movement of the quilt edges (so its more comfortable than straps).

     

    #3844851
    Terran Terran
    BPL Member

    @terran

    All these illustrations seem to indicate a tunnel effect thus leaving an impression of a lot of empty space. In actuality, the slack created by the wings, also allows the quilt to fall in around you.

    Some light fleece at the head of the sheet would be nice this time of year…

    #3844853
    Michael Glavin / Zenbivy
    BPL Member

    @gmontlake

    Locale: Owner, Zenbivy.com

    Jeff:

    Mike from Zenbivy here.  Before you modify your quilt, you may want to check out our new quilt conversion kit coming out next year.  It has the 8 patches pre-made to convert any quilt to a Zenbivy system.  There is an early preview/review at backcountry exposure’s channel:  https://youtu.be/T7piiDYXuk0?si=-YztWTv3O2h0PsOP

    #3844854
    Michael Glavin / Zenbivy
    BPL Member

    @gmontlake

    Locale: Owner, Zenbivy.com

    Geoff:

    As I mentioned in the previous post above, a Zenbivy does not create dead air space like attaching the quilt to the mattress with straps does.  The quilt edges are free to move around you and will fall to naturally cover you, eliminating extra air space.  This image demonstrates:  https://zenbivy.com/cdn/shop/files/2-Piece-Design-constriction-FINAL.gif?v=1740505803&width=860

    #3844930
    Terran Terran
    BPL Member

    @terran

    Store your puffy under the hood for easy access and a great pillow.

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