How do tent stakes interact with soils to create holding power?

[Terran Terran]

It mostly depends on your soils analysis anyway.

[Scott S]

If the only reason to knock the Groundhogs (Mini or Regular) is because they hurt your hand or chew up your soles, buy this. https://www.etsy.com/listing/1221813380/tent-stake-pusher-for-msr-groundhog-and?ref=yr_purchases  I’ve used it now on two trips and it works great. If the soil is too hard to push through, take it off and use a rock.

[Matt Dirksen]

I very much appreciate this article and it makes complete sense to me that since stakes primarily fail due to “pulling” forces, longer stakes with larger diameters will have a greater advantage in staying put. I’ve seen other information from companies that set up large circus-like tents that corroborate this.

But I would love to see testing done in a way that can simulate vibrational tension, which is the kind of tension that tents experience more than anything else, and the kind of tension that we want our stakes to be able to resist more than anything else.

Any builder or mechanic out there knows that the impact driver is significantly more efficient at removing bolts and screws and than a standard screw gun. So much so that I believe the efficiency gains exceed 50 percent. Knowing this (and witnessing multitudes of tent stakes “wiggle” their way out of the ground in high winds), I believe some stakes are much better at resisting 3-dimensional vibrational (wiggle) forces than standard 2-dimensional static (linear) forces.

I ask this because my observations tell me that the actual shape of the stake have as much as if not a greater impact on vibrational tension than just the length and diameter of the stake.

It also may got toward explaining why some shapes (“Y” channel) may be prefered in real world use over other shapes, even though they are a pain in the … palms …  to use.

Matt

[Monte Masterson]

“If the soil is too hard to push through, take it off and use a rock”.

Exactly. The main reason I don’t like tube stakes is because they don’t hold up to being pounded. Most of the time I can simply push my BA Dirt Daggers into the ground, but if it’s a bit too hard I can take a rock and pound them in. As long as I don’t get carried away with super hard blows they won’t get chewed up or chip. The I-Beam Dirt Daggers are even more durable to being hammered with a rock than Groundhogs. And they provide a better hold than tube stakes, at least the 7.5″ ones do.

https://www.bigagnes.com/products/dirt-dagger-ul-tent-stakes-pack-of-6?variant=43185518313721

[Monte Masterson]

Actually for softer soils 6.5″ titanium V stakes (0.4 oz) provide great holding power for their length and weight. Can’t take being pounded with a rock though and they’ll bend if stepped on when in ground.

 

[Terran Terran]

https://www.in.gov/dhs/files/APPENDIX-A-Staking-Analysis-vertical-vs-at-an-angle.pdf

[Bill Budney]

Wow, that sure is a counter-intuitive analysis, Terran. Surprise ending.

[Dan]

More interesting even than the article is to read in the comments about the varied ways people use their stakes. I haven’t pounded a stake in many years, but apparently it’s quite common in the community, and I see people (e.g. Ryan, Dan Durston) doing it in many videos.

[Jon Fong / Flat Cat Gear]

After reading a number of these articles there is something that people have not commented: water.  So, it seems like if you have sandy soil, adding water to the soil will help to strengthen the substrate.

If you have dry soil, a little water may help.  If you have normal soil and it may rain, adding a rain shield around your stake area could help from getting too wet and losing strength.  Weird.

[Arthur]

Terran, I grew up watching circus tents being put up with vertical  or close to vertical stakes. Long stakes.  Not scientific, but most stayed up in storms.

[Terran Terran]

https://www.aztectent.com/sites/default/files/client-resources-files/TRD_PocketStakingGuide.pdf

[Paul McLaughlin]

There are situations where the optimal stake is not the one with the most holding power. Case in point: I have a BA Copper Spur, and typically I stake the four corners and then the two vestbules. The stakes at the four corners do not have much tension on them, and the force they do experience is not only parallel to the surface but right at the surface of the ground. So for those, one does not need much holding power, and ease of insertion and light weight become paramount. No need to use something stout that has to get pounded in. On the two vestbules, you do need good holding power.

I also have a Tarptent Aeon, and there, every stake has to handle plenty of tension to get a taut pitch. In fact,  I have found that the 6″ Easton stakes that it came with are marginal in all but the best soil conditions, and often require a rock on top to supplement. I plan to replace them with 8 or 9″ tube or I-beam stakes.

I also have a Moment DW, and there we are back to big variations in stake loading. The two end guys do almost all the work, and need to be robust: if you stake at all at the feet of the main arch pole the stakes there can be minimal, and for serious conditions, the side guys should be robust (I’ve never had to deploy those, so far).

My point is that for each shelter, the staking needs are different, and selecting a set of stakes to suit a particular shelter optimally may mean a combination of different types for the various points on that shelter. Inlfuenced, of course, by typical soil condtions where you camp.

[Roger Caffin]

I have to agree: with stakes length is everything.

Cheers

[Ron Bell / MLD]

Noting that the MLD 8.75″ Easton Stakes are the same as all the other companies that carry them now. We’ve loved them for almost 20yrs. They can easily survive going through 3/4″ plywood and hard gravel ground without much problem –  a pounding most CF tube stakes can not survive.  (AKA 8″, 8.5″ and 9″ are now all the same).   We updated our website pics  that showed some of the older Eastons that had the very slightly different heads,  so understandable if Ryan had some old ones from MLD to reference.

(“The Mountain Laurel Designs stakes offer a more robust machined head that keeps guylines in place at the top of the stake head, but I never found that feature particularly useful. – RJ.)

[Erik Norseman]

I’m curious if anyone can compare MSR Carbon Core (6”) to the Atani 8” in terms of holding power? The Atani are longer but displace less soil. Assuming this is for shelter corners and not ridgelines, are both strong enough? Ryan says he uses the 6” Atani for low load guyouts but I have seen very little information on the 8” from folks.

[jscott]

Hiking in the Sierra there is never an absence of rocks that can be used to hold down stakes when a tent is exposed at altitude. Moreover, NO stake can penetrate solid granite beneath a 1/3 inch of sandy soil that offers itself for pitching a tent.

yes, below tree line I love finding a site where I can press in a stake in deep soil and trust it will hold.  But I’ve become very good at supporting stakes in non optimal terrain with one or more heavy rocks–or a pile of smaller rocks. this is something of a learned art in itself.

[Roger Caffin]

Rocks are good. Add some solid branches for extra shared support.

Windy Ck, KNP, Oz, very long/steep granite boulder gully/canyon. As dusk was falling, we found this lovely flat-topped boulder. Sue got the branches, I got the rocks. No side-guys that night, but despite the name, no wind that far down. Comfortable night.

Cheers

[Hanz B]

Follow up question. Regardless of pitching a taut tent I’m curious if stretch in a guyline is good or bad for holding power. Is a mild stretch in the guyline beneficial for holding power in that it allows dynamic movement, aka forces, that does not translate to the soil micro  compaction around the stake? Or is near zero stretch better such that no repetitive force is appreciated by the stake? I would just wonder if guylines have been going in the wrong direction in terms of development. My guess from some of my hammock bungee guylines is that if a guyline under significant tension can give you a limited half an inch of give per foot at high tension the perceived holding power of our lighter stakes would increase. On the other hand my dcf shelter would turn into a snare drum with too much movement.

[Roger Caffin]

I’m curious if stretch in a guyline is good or bad for holding power.
To a first approximation, stretch is neither good nor bad. If the guy rope stretches, the force stretching it appears at the stake in the ground. Laws of physics. The bit that moves would be the point of attachment on the tent or tarp.

Refinement: would the stake hold better if the guy stretched or did not stretch? Once again, I don’t think the holding power of the stake will change, at least in principle. Would shaking the guy make the stake wobble enough to change things? I doubt it, unless the shaking was so severe that the stake is going to fail regardless.

It might help to think in terms of a rock on the guy. Shaking the guy will not, in general, disturb the rock. If it can disturb it, then the rock was a bit precarious in the first place. Or, maybe, the peaks of tension are getting a bit too much!

HTH, Cheers

[David D]

Stretch should reduce peak impulsive forces so should help the stake maintain hold

[Matt Dirksen]

If there is some stretch in a guy line it would dampen the vibrational forces in the stake, likely reducing the probability of pulling out.

Think of the difference between dynamic climbing rope and static rope. If you use static rope on your next lead climb and fall, you might die due to the shock in the line.

So although there’d definitely be less vibrational force on the tent stake, the tent itself would vibrate more than it would without stretch in the guy line. If it’s a line that connects to the middle panel of a pyramid tent, that might be preferable. But if it’s a primary ridge line or connected to a pole, a static guy line might be much better.

bottom line: there ain’t no free lunch.

[Paul Hatfield]

Here’s another version of the pocket guide:

Pocket Guide – Pullout Capacity of Tent Stakes
https://tent.textiles.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/16/2016/09/TRD16_Staking-Pocket-Guide_fnl.pdf

[MJ H]

Stretch in the guyline can really launch a stake into the underbrush if you didn’t get it in the ground firmly enough on the first go.

[Brad Rogers]

I’ve been using the tubular Easton stakes for over 15 years and have been really happy with them.  I’ve had two or three break over the years bashing them into hard ground with rocks but they’ve held up surprisingly well.  I generally carry two gold 8″ Eastons for the ridgeline and six blue 6″ Eastons for the corners and doors.

I do have some Groundhogs and though they do hold well, I came to the same conclusion as Ryan that they’re quite hard on hands (and shoes).  I also managed to break the head off of one extracting it from frozen ground – still not sure how I did that.

[Roger Caffin]

For frozen ground I find titanium stakes much better. The reason is that ice can bond to the aluminium oxide found on ANY aluminium surface, and it bonds really well. But it cannot bond to the titanium oxide on the surface of Ti stakes.
See
https://backpackinglight.com/make_your_own_gear_titanium_snow_stakes/
https://backpackinglight.com/myog_ti_snow_stakes_part_2/

Cheers

[Author]

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