How did your crew select itineraries?

[David Y]

Jamie,

I guess I’m confused or don’t understand.

Looking at Itinerary #23 it appears to me;

Day 7 has you in Upper Greenwood, Day 8 you climb Baldy on the way to Copper Park (according to the description and Distance Traveled/Elevation profile) and Day 9 you side hike to French Henry for gold mine tour and stop in Baldy Town for food on the way to Miranda.

What am I missing?

[Jamie Barnes]

David,

Have you looked at the Philmont north section map with the itinerary? The trail from Upper Greenwood ends up at the “Baldy parking lot” (basically just a clearing in the woods where the Upper Greenwood trail to Baldy and Copper Park Baldy trail intersect). We will leave Upper Greenwood on the morning of day 8, hang our food and stow some gear at the Baldy parking lot, climb Baldy and stay the night at Copper Park. Day 9 get up and go down to FH and do whatever activities we can get in, go over to Baldy Town for a food pick up, head for Miranda to see if we have time to shoot muzzleloaders and stay the night there.

Jamie.

[David Y]

Jamie,

Yes, I looked at my North Country map but it must not be as updated as yours and it does not show what you spoke of.

So I Googled http://www.philtrek.com/trails.php, clicked on Trails and Upper Greenwood to Copper Park. It shows a map of the trail zigzagging up out of Greenwood Canyon, over the ridge line at 11,508 feet and switchbacks back down into Copper Park. It does not show going to a “Baldy parking lot”.

[Jamie Barnes]

David – you might have to look on Google Earth to find it. Basically it’s at the intersection of the Greenwood Trail and Cooper Park trail up to Baldy. They intersect in a small clearing where the trail takes off to the west to go up Baldy. If you zoom in on Google Maps/Earth you can probably pick it out. I don’t think it’s labeled on any map though. That’s what the rangers and staff call it I believe. Seems like a good description vs the intersection of the Upper Greenwood and Cooper Park Baldy Mountain trails. :-)

Hope it makes sense now.

Jamie.

[Jamie Barnes]

Here’s a pic I took in September on our autumn adventure of the so-called Baldy parking lot.

[David Y]

Jamie,

I think we are talking about the same trails but didn’t realize it.

I did as you suggested and looked at Google Earth, Maps, then entered Philmont and bingo, a topo with trails came up. I scrolled up to Baldy Mountain and I see 3 trails coming up to Baldy’s summit; Baldy to Baldy Town and Black Horse Trail up the south side, Baldy to Greenwood Canyon Trail and Baldy to Copper Park Trail that intersect on the north side.

Is this the map and trails you are looking at?

The Baldy to Greenwood Canyon Trail is a short trail from the intersection with the Baldy to Copper Park Trail just below the summit that runs northeast along the relative flat (500 feet climb overall) treeless ridge line to the intersection just above the switchbacks of the Copper Park to Greenwood Canyon Trail.

The Copper Park to Greenwood Canyon Trail is the trail (road) you will be coming up from Upper Greenwood on. We hiked it in 2001 from Greenwood Canyon to Copper Park (before Upper Greenwood was established). It is a very tough continuous steep uphill climb on a 4WD road with no shade or water the entire way. Leave well before dawn.

The Baldy to Greenwood Canyon Trail is the trail and along the ridge line I have been speaking of.  We hiked it from Copper Park to the summit in 2014. We have summited Baldy 6 times on all three trails and it is the best (easiest) of all the approaches.

If that flat treeless bald at the intersection of the Baldy to Greenwood Canyon Trail and Baldy to Copper Park Trail is the “Baldy parking lot” you’ve been speaking of there is no parking lot or road to it and no trees to hang bags. But it is only about 253 feet below the summit though it is a very steep and rocky climb up from there. I believe you can carry your packs up that short hard climb rather than leave them on the ground for the mini bears.

“Philmont should be enjoyed, not endured”, Moonshine

[David Y]

Jamie,

I just saw your photo of your Baldy parking lot. I didn’t see it on Google Earth, where is it? I’m confused again.

[Jamie Barnes]

David see photos on this post. I’ve created some labels from Google Earth using the Philmont KMZ files that show the trail locations, or at least close. There is no road up to the “Baldy parking lot”. That’s just what term was used to describe it to me by one of the assistant program directors at Philmont. He also used to be the lead ranger a couple of years ago. I figured his term was a good one to use. Sorry for the confusion. :-)

Jamie.

[David Y]

Jamie, OK, I got (see) it now, good job.

Hopefully there has been a trail built between Greenwood Canyon and Copper Park now but when we hiked out of Greenwood Canyon to Copper Park in 2001 there was not.

In 2001 there were few camps and fewer trails in the Valle. There was no Greenwood Canyon to Copper Park Trail or Baldy to Greenwood Canyon Trail.  We had to hike on a very steep gravel 4WD road which terminated just below the ridge line above Copper Park in somewhat of a parking lot/turn around.  This was before the switchback trail down to Copper Park was built so we had to bushwhack it down through an aspen grove.  I can’t imagine that 4WD road is not still there however I don’t recommend hiking on it.

When we summited Baldy from Copper Park in 2014 we climbed up the new switchbacks of the now Greenwood Canyon to Copper Park and walked around the ridge line to the summit on what is now the Baldy to Greenwood Canyon Trail.

The hike from your “Baldy parking lot” to the summit should be easy an 800 foot climb over a couple of miles after your 3,000 foot climb out of Greenwood Canyon.

[Brian H]

Jamie

The area you speak of “parking lot” does exist.  Think that’s what the folks at Philmont called it.   Haven’t seen any cars up there yet. Guess it is a figure of speech.  On one side of the area is the trail from Upper Greenwood and on the other side are the switch backs to Copper Park.  There should be plenty of trees for LNT bear bags on the flat area.  Coming up from the Greenwood trail you would hang a right up an incline to the plateau before you climb Baldy.  It is wide open and can be quite windy.  There is a small old miners hut you can duck in to get out of the wind if it is.

Your idea about hanging bags and leaving Gear is a good one.  No sense in carrying a full pack up Baldy and then back to the same spot “parking lot”. Unless of course you want the practice.  We did the same thing two years ago and it was much more enjoyable to just have the essentials for the summit.  If the timing works the “parking lot” area is a good flat place for a rest and to get some food in you before the heavy climbing starts.  Happy hiking this summer. Make sure the scouts know map and compass for the Valle

[Jamie Barnes]

David – I haven’t hiked from Upper Greenwood to Baldy. On the map, it looks like it’s a road but what we saw when we were there in the fall looked like a trail coming into the Baldy parking lot trail intersection. Not sure what kind of condition it’s in below what I saw. Looks like a steep climb from Upper Greenwood to the Baldy parking lot. Can’t be any worse than Miranda to Baldy we did in 2017.

We went stayed at Copper Park and summited Baldy this past September. That was much easier than coming up from Miranda.

[Jamie Barnes]

Brian – thanks. There were plenty of trees there this past September when we were there. Should be lots of places to hang bear bags. Unless I have a scout, or burro, available to carry my excess gear I see no reason to schlep it up Baldy. :-)

[David Y]

I suspect that 4WD road up from Greenwood Canyon to the parking lot is probably SAR crews’ only vehicle access to near Baldy’s summit or any of its trails. Much closer than Copper Park and far closer than Baldy Town. It would not be too difficult for SAR crews to climb up and wheel stretcher a victim back down to there.

I just hope they have built a better more graded trail in the timber, that road is a ball buster.

After climbing 3,000 feet up from Upper Greenwood you will think you’re on an escalator walking on the Baldy to Greenwood Canyon Trail, it’s nearly flat until you reach the old miner’s shack just below steep rocky climb to the summit.

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